One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (Voting Time!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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exponent1
KVRist
44 posts since 10 Nov, 2018

Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:29 am

I've updated my submission viewtopic.php?p=7321369#p7321369

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] Peter:H [
KVRian
701 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:27 am

Submission
For tonite god is a DJ...that was long ago. Is god still a DJ? Do we entertain her? Does she exist at all?
Here's the 3 parts of my piece
  • Boring Intro: - 1:55
  • Semi boring, semi energetic middle part: 1:55 -
  • Boring outro: 3:28 --
https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/prev ... still-a-dj

Facts and Fiction
  • 27 Instances of KX Poly Thingy - Some of the instances were quite the same but with Bitwig Instrument Selector Magic a litte twisted to put them little left/right and eq differently
  • A pain lot of FX, mostly Bitwig native
  • Sonic Anomaly Unlimited
  • OTT only 10 percent - I got it loud enough thru mixing allready
Producer Notes
  • Didn't use any side-chain at all
  • Volumes, Width and some Low and High Cuts are automated thru Bitwig automation clips
  • I found putting noise into the "panorama" column of the mod matrix funny
  • I completely didn't get the LFO modes - me puzzpled
The track has been approved by WFMA - 100% free of reeze or wobbles
Last edited by ] Peter:H [ on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:33 am, edited 4 times in total.

Carl_saved
KVRist
136 posts since 17 May, 2013

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:26 pm

Hi all, I am done! :phew: :-D

May spring arrive on our northern hemisphere,
so that our tracks may unfreeze.
Speaking of which - I hope the north americans amongst us made it through that extraordinary winter!


https://soundcloud.com/carl_saved/undeserved


I don't deserve this synth.
I don't deserve to be doing this.
Do I even deserve to be?
Ha - if you knew me well enough! :lol:
And yet here we go - undeservedly.
Everything we have today may be gone tomorrow.
And yet our lives are held in loving hands.



PolyMod: 54x in Ableton Live 10

Ableton Live's Audio FX:
EQ Eight: 35
Reverb: 10
Utility: 3
Simple Delay: 3
Ping Pong Delay: 5
Filter Delay: 2
Compressor: 9 (mainly sidechaining)
Limiter: 2
Multiband Dynamics: 2

Ableton Live's MIDI tools:
Chord: 5 (for some percs, forgot the ones for scratches earlier)
Pitch: 7
Random: 1

3rd party:
Voxengo Span: 1
Youlean Loudness Meter: 1

of which are in master: EQ Eight -> Multiband Dynamics -> Limiter -> SPAN + YLM

Carl_saved
KVRist
136 posts since 17 May, 2013

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:48 am

Rellik wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:42 pm
And let me know if anyone wants any of these patches, there are some weird interesting ones (solo cello, low-strings section, crack snare, "talking" lead, pizzicato strings).
I'd like to second that ... if you want to know anything about the sounds in my track/want patches, feel free to ask :)
@Rellik: well actually I'd like to see some of your sound design (if not all of it). Hmm... how about the cello? :tu:

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zerofox97
KVRist
88 posts since 17 Sep, 2013 from UK

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:29 am

] Peter:H [ wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:27 am
The track has been approved by WFMA - 100% free of reeze or wobbles
Your self proclaimed standard of quality is not going to get you a higher score. Why is it necessary? You just upset that some people have their genres that they like to stick to? That's life, buddy. Get over yourself.
It's very tasty, I swear!

Carl_saved
KVRist
136 posts since 17 May, 2013

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:12 pm

@Peter:
The statement about wobbles seems to irritate some people around here. I don't know if you really want to say what people read between the lines.

I want to say some words about what I read between the lines. Please correct me if I'm wrong :)
Also please bear with me as I am saying out loud something i'd probably not say ... The crowd can stone me once they read the whole thing.

I know that very often, when there's a track that can be seen as Dubstep or Drum'n'Bass, in MOST cases it places in the top half of the scoreboard, and in many cases that track will be a strong competitor in the Top5, against many other sophisticated tracks.
Now, this can easily lead to the assumption that "I just need to make a dubstep track and I will be in the top half for sure". And maybe that's not even too far from reality (although there will be exceptions). I can understand that one can get frustrated about this.
But here's the point. It is not easy to actually make something sound like Dubstep, I find (unless you're using Serum or the likes). I have tried it a couple of times in the past (never in OSC though). So if a track does sound like dubstep (or DnB etc.) it shows immediately, that the producer is able to obtain a "specific" sound from the synth despite all the odds that the synth may have.
The same goes for physical modeling: if it sounds realistic, it is impressive in OSC terms. There may have been a million of other cool sounds from the synth, but to be able to find a specific one is a "skill show off" in a similar way. (Sorry this may sound offending, but read further)

This is a very primitive pattern that explains a lot of victories in OSC quite well. Imitate something that people find hard to imitate with the synth and they are impressed. If it is "just" anything random from the synth, they usually aren't as impressed. I remember the track from z.prime in OSC 93. It was very experimental, but people are familiar with a lot of sounds within that track and so it was impressive to many. Same thing applies to the Polka. People recognized the sound of it and so they were impressed. Of course, there is the composition part and some other aspects that I didn't mention. (I think Jasinski once wrote a post on how to win OSC)

And now that I read what I wrote, I can fully understand that it is frustrating. And it *has* frustrated people in the past who were making music off the mainstream, exploring the sonic capabilities of the synth rather than trying to imitate things that can be achieved more conveniently in real life than in OSC.

Now as we get an impression on how to get OSC votes in, we have a choice: either we choose to try to impress our fellow participants as much as possible. This involves a lot of imitation and striving after a specific sound. Or we say, we'd rather take a risk and try out new and unheard stuff (at least unheard by the crowd). But both at the same time is hard in the current voting system, and any other, to be realistic.

Here is a suggestion. In earlier OSC days, when voting was done directly in the forum, I remember someone saying they liked a track BECAUSE it represented the synth of the month so well. Maybe we can "sharpen our ears" (as we Germans like to say) and take care of this aspect of a song a bit more in the future, and therefore reward innovative explorations with the synth (and I think Peter is very strong in that area).

I know that the OSC scoreboard is a tough place. It is so easy to take it personally. No matter whether we end up at the top or the bottom of the scoreboard. For those at the top it is hard and for those at the bottom it can be a relief to hear: the scoreboard doesn't tell the truth about us. It is just our efforts in that month that we put into some order by some system I explained above. It doesn't have anything to say about my value, your value and anyone's value :hug: :hug:

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schiing
KVRist
259 posts since 27 Oct, 2015

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:50 pm

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, Carl - not offensive at all, at least not to my mind. :)

You know, it's interesting. Peter said something to the same effect about wobbles last month. Back then I had just posted my Waverazor track, and incidentally I had written something like "all cracks and wobbles are intentional" in my track submission notes.

My music is certainly nowhere near dubstep, and I have absolutely no idea whether Peter had even seen my post at that point. Still, something stung a bit when I read his comment, and, self-conscious as I am, I caught myself wondering whether he was in fact passive-aggressively talking down my track!

Now, I have no quarrels with Peter at all, and as far as I know, we have only ever said nice things about each other. So I decided not to worry about it. Hey, even if my track was the catalyst for his "wobble" comment, it still wouldn't matter - I would never hold a minor thing like that against Peter or anyone else.

And yet, something started churning in the back of my mind: I was/am really happy with my Waverazor track. It's pretty moody, and somehow struck a more personal chord with me than some of my other OSC tracks.

And it got me thinking: Do I really want to run this track through the OSC carousel? I already know I like it; it's mixed just the way I want it. Critique, however well-intentioned and benign, will in fact not change my mind on anything at all, and only serve to bug me. And if it performs any poorer than the top 5, I'll be miserable!

So, in the end I decided to pull it from the OSC. I have no idea whether I did it for the most part because I was too insecure to deal with negative voices, or because I was totally confident that it was a precious work of art (actually, closer to #1, probably :lol: ). But I guess it was Peter's little "kick" that triggered my decision.

I have no idea if there's a point to this story, or indeed if there's a moral here. I just thought it was an interesting tangent to zerofox97's annoyance with Peter's war on wobbles.

- -

Otherwise, in relation to what Carl wrote, I think it can sometimes be hard to find a good balance between showcasing the synth and composing music that makes sense.

For my own part, I decided early on that I will experiment like crazy in the beginning, exploring the outer limits of the synth, gradually carving out the musical path I want to take.

Then, once I feel like I'm on a good trajectory with the music, my programming choices start to serve the music instead of the other way around, so, by this point I might go for a pure sine wave with a slight vibrato on the mod for the lead part. Not very impressive, but man, that's a beautiful sound! No shame in that.

I like this kind of workflow; it has sometimes lead me into experimental territory, and other times to very conventional tracks. I'm lucky - I like both, both as a listener and a composer.

Also: Yeah, there are probably some patterns as to which tracks do well. Never mind that. Do what you want to do! Do what you like to do! As far as I'm concerned, your only aim should be to do exactly that - and then figure out a way to get even better at it.

It doesn't matter whether it's dubstep or polka, or whether you prefer to dance wildly between styles, perfect your skills in the tiniest, little subniche or simply make anarchic synth noises with wobbles - that's nobody else's business. It's your world, and if it doesn't strike a chord with the large majority, it's probably just a tell-tale sign of your total coolness. Either that, or you might need to become a better mixer. :wink:

Rellik
KVRian
1240 posts since 22 Aug, 2003

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:05 am

Carl_saved wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:48 am
I'd like to second that ... if you want to know anything about the sounds in my track/want patches, feel free to ask :)
@Rellik: well actually I'd like to see some of your sound design (if not all of it). Hmm... how about the cello? :tu:
Here's my cello (or more of a double bass - scoop the mids for a more cello-ish tone) - http://www.adamlederer.com/junk/rellik_ ... .vstpreset (for the VST3 version, not sure if it's possible to save out an fxp from VST3?). For the whole string ensemble I used 5 monophonic clones of this patch with slight variations/humanization. The rhythmic bowing is super annoying detailed EQ automation :D hence my use of only a single bowing pattern...

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exponent1
KVRist
44 posts since 10 Nov, 2018

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:21 am

Rellik wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Hi again! Going to take a break on my entry before final mix so thought I'd post a WIP here as a sanity check (like if it's unlistenably incoherent, accidental plagiarism, trite and misguided, etc. :P) - thanks if you do have anything to call out! And let me know if anyone wants any of these patches, there are some weird interesting ones (solo cello, low-strings section, crack snare, "talking" lead, pizzicato strings).

http://www.adamlederer.com/junk/osc_feb_wip2.mp3
Rellik that's a really groovy WIP you've got! I get some Mr. Bill vibes from it almost. The sound design is very interesting, as is the composition. Really masterfully done. Can't wait to hear your track :hyper: ! All the best :)

Carl_saved
KVRist
136 posts since 17 May, 2013

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:06 am

Rellik wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:05 am
Here's my cello (or more of a double bass - scoop the mids for a more cello-ish tone) - http://www.adamlederer.com/junk/rellik_ ... .vstpreset (for the VST3 version, not sure if it's possible to save out an fxp from VST3?). For the whole string ensemble I used 5 monophonic clones of this patch with slight variations/humanization. The rhythmic bowing is super annoying detailed EQ automation :D hence my use of only a single bowing pattern...
Thanks for the explanation! A shame I cannot load the vstpreset format (yet! - Live 10.1 with long awaited VST3 support is coming!). Let's see how long that takes :D Or can anyone convert the file?

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2017 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:55 am

If you don‘t get #1 with this I‘ll eat my hat...

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] Peter:H [
KVRian
701 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:43 am

Carl_saved wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:06 am
Rellik wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:05 am
Here's my cello (or more of a double bass - scoop the mids for a more cello-ish tone) - http://www.adamlederer.com/junk/rellik_ ... .vstpreset (for the VST3 version, not sure if it's possible to save out an fxp from VST3?). For the whole string ensemble I used 5 monophonic clones of this patch with slight variations/humanization. The rhythmic bowing is super annoying detailed EQ automation :D hence my use of only a single bowing pattern...
Thanks for the explanation! A shame I cannot load the vstpreset format (yet! - Live 10.1 with long awaited VST3 support is coming!). Let's see how long that takes :D Or can anyone convert the file?
It will get a +5 from me, though some parts seem worth optimizing in terms of harmonic content, its wonderfully different and pleasent to follow. But at the same time...TJ, how would you want to get your hat served? Bbq'ed with ketchup, or Sous-vide served with a Vinaigrette? I predict it does not make it to #1...

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exponent1
KVRist
44 posts since 10 Nov, 2018

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:03 am

] Peter:H [ wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:43 am
It will get a +5 from me, though some parts seem worth optimizing in terms of harmonic content, its wonderfully different and pleasent to follow. But at the same time...TJ, how would you want to get your hat served? Bbq'ed with ketchup, or Sous-vide served with a Vinaigrette? I predict it does not make it to #1...
Where do you predict your certified quality track will rank Peter? :hihi: J/K of course :wink:

Rellik
KVRian
1240 posts since 22 Aug, 2003

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:55 am
If you don‘t get #1 with this I‘ll eat my hat...
Thanks for the kind feedback @Tj, @exponent1, @Peter! I agree with @Peter, there are a bunch tracks that have blown me away already - hope you wear a small hat :)

@schiiing I’m sad to hear you went through that amount of stress :(. I can see how the voting/feedback would be really de-motivating if there’s a big gap in taste with the group. But the only thing it accurately measures is which track is most popular with the large group. Yes, pop and digestible music will hit higher with the masses - in life we’ve all accepted this - so placing low or receiving feedback that “misses the point” says nothing meaningful about quality. What *does* say something meaningful is looking at the scores and comments you receive from individual contributors you admire!

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schiing
KVRist
259 posts since 27 Oct, 2015

Re: One Synth Challenge #120: SE PolyMod KX by KX77FREE (PC/MAC)

Post Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:52 am

Rellik wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 am
Thanks for the kind feedback @Tj, @exponent1, @Peter! I agree with @Peter, there are a bunch tracks that have blown me away already - hope you wear a small hat :)
You can add me to the list - I distinctly remember being impressed when I heard your WiP earlier :)
Rellik wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 am
@schiiing I’m sad to hear you went through that amount of stress :(. I can see how the voting/feedback would be really de-motivating if there’s a big gap in taste with the group.
Ah, thanks Rellik. No big deal, that's just part of my design, I guess :lol: :help:

I've been very lucky in that all my tracks have been very well received here on OSC, though. But for a man with my (somewhat anxious??) disposition, it's easy to imagine the frustration many must feel placing low month after month with quality tracks that are a bit outside of the mainstream.

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