Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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toby
KVRian
549 posts since 28 Apr, 2002 from Canada

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:50 pm

Loving Hive 1.2 + continuum at the moment.
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Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1029 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:56 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:46 pm
You haven't listed Sektor. I am also wondering what the point of this list is. School assignment?
Nah, was saved by the bell.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2017 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:53 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:46 pm
You haven't listed Sektor. I am also wondering what the point of this list is. School assignment?
Sektors MPE is broken and they are not going to fix it...

robbmonn
KVRist
88 posts since 1 Jul, 2018

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:18 am

I've dug into most of these. Hive is the one that is working the best for me.

What I am finding most useful in MPE synths is:

- some kind of even simple lag processor that I can apply to pressure (otherwise pressure is hard to keep smooth enough to map to volume 100% and have a pleasing result)
- a pretty deep mod matrix so that I can apply the MPE parameters in small amounts of several parameters.. this is a must to make sounds that feel really expressive.

Hive has both of these and works well. Also, v2 is coming and looks even more better-er.

Falcon, I think, would be second. I think it is less of an awesome wavetable synth in execution (the workflow is a lot to deal with) but feels as capable, sound-wise, and you get a good MPE capable sampler, granular sampler and wavetable synth. But it isn't cheap and it is a time investment to get things working. Hive is instant fun.

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1029 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:57 am

Sounds nice, on my list to buy.

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Urs
u-he
23364 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:40 pm

robbmonn wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:18 am
- some kind of even simple lag processor that I can apply to pressure (otherwise pressure is hard to keep smooth enough to map to volume 100% and have a pleasing result)
[...]
Hive has both of these and works well. Also, v2 is coming and looks even more better-er.
That's another reason why we're adding buchla-style function generators. So you can have a quick response to pressure, but it "holds" even after you release the key. There's a special lag mode which freezes after key is lifted. I think this is going to be exceptionally useful for MPE controllers.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14951 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:03 pm

Urs wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:40 pm
robbmonn wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:18 am
- some kind of even simple lag processor that I can apply to pressure (otherwise pressure is hard to keep smooth enough to map to volume 100% and have a pleasing result)
[...]
Hive has both of these and works well. Also, v2 is coming and looks even more better-er.
That's another reason why we're adding buchla-style function generators. So you can have a quick response to pressure, but it "holds" even after you release the key. There's a special lag mode which freezes after key is lifted. I think this is going to be exceptionally useful for MPE controllers.
Excellent! I'm glad to hear of a solution for that. :tu:

robbmonn
KVRist
88 posts since 1 Jul, 2018

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:16 pm

wow. that’s really fantastic news! very excited. let me know if you need more beta testers. i beta tested the very first zebra release long long long ago w you and atariboy.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7698 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:38 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:53 am
Sektors MPE is broken and they are not going to fix it...
So what? That's not what he asked for. MPE is a waste of MIDI channels anyway and I didn't realise Sektor had any support at all.
robbmonn wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:18 am
- some kind of even simple lag processor that I can apply to pressure (otherwise pressure is hard to keep smooth enough to map to volume 100% and have a pleasing result)
Which controller are you using? I have no problem with that on my Rise 25. That's not an MPE-specific thing anyway, just a feature of the Seaboards that works equally well in normal MIDI mode.
a pretty deep mod matrix so that I can apply the MPE parameters in small amounts of several parameters.. this is a must to make sounds that feel really expressive.
There is no such thing as an "MPE parameter", they are just normal MIDI controller signals sent over multiple channels. The "5 dimensions of touch" are separate from MPE. If you think about them that way, you might find it easier to get things working the way you want. e.g. Fool your synth into thinking that Pressure from your controller is really a breath controller and set things up that way. That should also extend the number of instruments you can use with Pressure and the other features beyond just those with MPE support. I never use my RISE in MPE mode and I have all 5 dimensions, plus the sliders and the X-Y pad, available all the time.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10), Yamaha AG06, Orion 64 bit, Roli Seaboard Rise 25, Ultranova, Rocket, Pulse 2, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno.

robbmonn
KVRist
88 posts since 1 Jul, 2018

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:46 pm

huh. well here’s bones with the real scoop.

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Urs
u-he
23364 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:54 pm

robbmonn wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:16 pm
wow. that’s really fantastic news! very excited. let me know if you need more beta testers. i beta tested the very first zebra release long long long ago w you and atariboy.
Hehehe, I remember very well. Those were the times :-)

Expect an email from us tomorrow.

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jancivil
KVRAF
17529 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:34 am

Well, you either have an instrument which will, eg., do something with the super-wide pitch bend an MPE controller is built for or you don't.

"There is no such thing as..." is a red herring. Yes, it's pitch bend, pressure, CC74 'timbre' (as though the old 'brightness' in synths) and note off velocity.
If you do not support for instance 'note-off velocity' in the development of your instrument, it's just doing nothing. If it's an instrument limited to a whole tone +/- for pitch bend, there is not a lot going to happen with 'glide' from the MPE controller. Many soft instruments do nothing from pressure/aftertouch.
You could on the other hand build something in any instrument with a filter to use 'CC 74' somewhat; use it brilliantly is another question.

Actually that remark is quite useless.

Also, too I got hip to VE Pro and multiple MIDI ports years ago, so if an instance of Equator uses 16 channels I have another 47 ports (752 ch) if I want.

retroactivecont
KVRer
6 posts since 22 Sep, 2017

Re: Wavetable synth with full MPE/note expression support

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:32 am

The latest beta of Surge has had some major developments on the MPE front.

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