XLN Audio - XO - Improvement, Pros, Cons

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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plexuss
KVRAF
4728 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:14 pm

I like it too. I provides me with a good solid sampled drum machine sound which I enjoy layering with other rhythms. I can count on XO to provide a strong backbeat and slick sound and let me play with randomization to try and get something that mixes in well. I like it! Like my other plugins I just accept the limitations and use what I can.

zwhita
KVRer
27 posts since 7 Apr, 2014

Post Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:18 pm

There was a sample library from the 90's called XX Large No-Kick. I've been making alot of stems with XO that sound like loops from that kind of library. As said above, the selling point is rapidly custom making them for your projects using your own libraries. It truly does make getting more familiar with your one-shot libraries alot easier and more fun to work with. I enjoy it as-is.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
3591 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:57 pm

zwhita wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:48 pm
So the gist I'm getting from this thread is that XLN Audio sold everyone here who contributed a graphically-interpreted search engine bolted to a Volca Sample softsynth. This apparently because everyone was so eager to trudge through 2TB of tasty kick drums, and because they were insidiously bewitched by basic statistical model informatics being applied to periodic function analysis, lit up in pretty pastel colors, that they didn't notice the sequencer only had 8 tracks and 2 patterns.

I got it on sale and I kind of enjoy it as an outlet for amused discovery, but then again I don't do any real work.
I have a terrific sequencer with XO. It's called Cubase.

I use the XO internal sequencer to build a basic beat, it's great for that. Once done I tend to do everything else in the DAW. I use the same workflow pretty much for Superior Drummer 3, but the difference is that SD3 can suggest some great variations itself. I've never wanted to run a parallel sequencer for the whole track, it makes no sense to me to be faffing around with two separate timelines, it's a complete PITA when it comes to working with song structure. But having something on board within the plugin can be incredibly useful for basic beat-building.

Ditto built in effects - it's all handy to have, but I have XO's outputs as sep outs in my Cubase template, just add what I want there. Again, I do exactly the same thing in Superior Drummer 3.

I'd love some improvements to XO, it's certainly not perfect. I've love the ability to import midi, more grooves and the ability to change grooves not kits (I know you can kludge this, but would be nice to have a simple single click option for it). However it IS incredibly useful to me just as it is, far far from a toy. Just the search box combined with the visual representation is golden, such a piece of cake to type in 707 or whatever.
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http://www.sound-on-screen.com
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yellowmix
KVRAF
1867 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Post Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:28 pm

BezO wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:52 pm
As cool as Space is for accessing samples, putting kits together 1 piece at a time is inefficient.
What exactly are you asking for here? How else do you put a drum kit together if not one piece at a time?

TheHelioSequence
KVRist
52 posts since 1 Oct, 2005

Post Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 pm

I only wish that you could randomize the entire kit and each slot. That would be great for inspiration and fun. The current alternate/similar sounds system is great as well, but I want little dice buttons everywhere... even put them on the sequencer.

yellowmix
KVRAF
1867 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Post Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:59 pm

I want to be able to sort the Sample Folders. It's a pain to figure out if a folder is already added. I put the request in via official support in December 2020 and they said they'd forward it to their product team.

Using this product very regularly, I can't produce without it. I'm finding treasure I added to my library 10+ years ago, and can experiment with it in context. Once the kit is built, I drag and drop it to my drum rack/machine of choice, and build loops and drag the MIDI clips out to my DAW which I can modify, overdub, etc.. I got fresh kits and beats every track now.

I've also been diving into the database. It's a standard SQLite file. The machine classification is done on import, and it stores it as X/Y coordinates on the map, and with a couple other parameters like "Druminess". So with SQL queries you can find exact duplicates. There are a lot of developers out there stealing samples![1] There is also a lack of quality control when devs have duplicates within the same sample pack.

I did some preliminary tests. Silence added after a sample will result in the exact same coordinates. Different gain, resampled, slightly different coordinates. Silence added to the beginning, also different coordinates. So one would be able to find likely slightly modified samples by looking at coordinate distances. Not easily done with SQL.

Of course, there are devs that will reprocess them more thoroughly. There are devs reprocessing samples from ancient 90s CDs—as simple as EQing, and placing in new sample packs. Finding that via AI would require software built expressly for that task. But if you're a sample dev, try seeing what matches or nearly matches with your samples!

1. Some factory libraries legally license samples from other companies. I'm talking about devs that claim to be releasing original content.

User avatar
WatchTheGuitar
KVRAF
9480 posts since 30 Apr, 2019

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:10 am

So if it’s held in a SQL database and you can ascertain the schema it wouldn’t be too hard to knock up a full kit randomiser provided you have either an existing kit to update or can work out how to insert a new one?

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
3591 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:26 am

TheHelioSequence wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 pm
I only wish that you could randomize the entire kit and each slot. That would be great for inspiration and fun. The current alternate/similar sounds system is great as well, but I want little dice buttons everywhere... even put them on the sequencer.
That would indeed be nice. Or how about a slider that goes from "very close match" at one end (how it is now), and "totally random" at the other? And you could even add it to mixer parameters too.

Here's another FR while I'm in the mood. Often the kit parts jump to another instrument eg the snare channel becomes a tom. A little "stick to instrument" button would be handy. (unless someone knows a way to already do this?)
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2019 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 10.5
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
4336 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:57 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:57 pm
I have a terrific sequencer with XO. It's called Cubase.

I use the XO internal sequencer to build a basic beat, it's great for that. Once done I tend to do everything else in the DAW.
well, some people have different use cases. for example, i use XO live, and i would love to have a robust sequencer (akin to what MicroTonic does, which is what i currently use as a sequencer) with full MIDI control/feedback to come up with beats quickly.
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noiseboyuk
KVRAF
3591 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:00 am

Burillo wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:57 am
noiseboyuk wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:57 pm
I have a terrific sequencer with XO. It's called Cubase.

I use the XO internal sequencer to build a basic beat, it's great for that. Once done I tend to do everything else in the DAW.
well, some people have different use cases. for example, i use XO live, and i would love to have a robust sequencer (akin to what MicroTonic does, which is what i currently use as a sequencer) with full MIDI control/feedback to come up with beats quickly.
That's fair enough. I'd have thought XO would need an awful lot of changes to be a really good live tool though.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2019 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 10.5
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

JiggSaw
KVRist
186 posts since 28 Jun, 2004

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:45 am

yellowmix wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:59 pm
I want to be able to sort the Sample Folders. It's a pain to figure out if a folder is already added. I put the request in via official support in December 2020 and they said they'd forward it to their product team.

Using this product very regularly, I can't produce without it. I'm finding treasure I added to my library 10+ years ago, and can experiment with it in context. Once the kit is built, I drag and drop it to my drum rack/machine of choice, and build loops and drag the MIDI clips out to my DAW which I can modify, overdub, etc.. I got fresh kits and beats every track now.
Are you basically saying that you only use XO to build kits? Everything else is done elsewhere?

gondii
KVRian
964 posts since 8 Oct, 2019

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:58 am

At this point I use XO almost exclusively as a sample browser. I drag them straight into Geist2. But it works for me.

yellowmix
KVRAF
1867 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Post Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:31 am

JiggSaw wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:45 am
Are you basically saying that you only use XO to build kits? Everything else is done elsewhere?
Usually, I drag the drums into my drum rack of choice. Now the drum rack can be triggered by MIDI exported from XO.

I tend to have melodic assets and a song structure already, so I can sequence in XO in context to it. I'll export a couple MIDI loops onto the drum rack track. Then I can arrange the MIDI clips. I may go back to XO to sequence some more MIDI loops or copy and rework clips already on the track.

But I have no one rigid way of composing. Sometimes I'll drag them into Geist 2, which is a complete song sequencing environment and has its own workflow that I may prefer for a project. Sometimes I'll drag them into Battery and do all the sequencing in my DAW. For instance, in trap and hardstyle the kick isn't a one-shot sample, it's a pitched instrument. In some hip-hop, you want to record your drums on pads. So these don't necessarily lend themselves to being sequenced in XO. Do what works best for you.

User avatar
BezO
KVRist
272 posts since 19 Jul, 2005

Post Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:48 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:28 pm
BezO wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:52 pm
As cool as Space is for accessing samples, putting kits together 1 piece at a time is inefficient.
What exactly are you asking for here? How else do you put a drum kit together if not one piece at a time?
I should've said loading a kit 1 piece at a time...

If I have a pattern and want to switch the kit, I have to do it 1 piece at a time since patterns and kits are saved together.
The groove baby, the groove...

User avatar
LoveEnigma18
KVRAF
4567 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Post Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:57 am

So, I was reading some older posts (JiggSaw's one in particular) and just realized myself after trying that it is not possible to trigger another drum plugin in real time using XO's sequencer?! Strange how I missed noticing this earlier. Having to drag MIDI out lacks intuitiveness.

Fixed MIDI mapping is another problem too.

I think DrumComputer is much better in this regard, but I don't have it (yet). I am demoing it and it is so much fun to use its sequencer (MIDI) to trigger Battery 4 and Polyplex kits in real time.

Anyone using XO and DrumComputer with Battery 4/Polyplex?

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