Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Sinisterbr
KVRist
71 posts since 11 Mar, 2010

Post Fri May 10, 2019 12:46 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:16 pm
Sinisterbr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:06 am
I see, but if we try to make a similar, very simple patch in both (say, just a single osc saw wave through a LPF), will both synths have the same CPU load?
I mean, do MX take some shortcuts (like Hive) in the filter algos, or does it go into deep filter emulation and non linearities?
MX takes no shortcuts at all to get the quality. It doesn't necessarily emulate existing stuff as far as filters are concerned, but there's the Monark filter, at least.
pdxindy wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:10 am
MX wont have the Reaktor tax though...
It'll have the "bestest DSP quality" tax. ;)
Wow, thanks. That's exciting.
Great presets (surely, if we look at Super 8 ), great sound quality, great GUI, straightfoward, reasonable priced. All my boxes checked!

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15455 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 1:03 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:16 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:10 am
MX wont have the Reaktor tax though...
It'll have the "bestest DSP quality" tax. ;)
:tu:

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telecode
KVRian
543 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 1:27 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:03 pm
EvilDragon wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:16 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:10 am
MX wont have the Reaktor tax though...
It'll have the "bestest DSP quality" tax. ;)
:tu:
can someone pls explain in plain english.

--> "bestest DSP quality tax" <--

the best sound quality vs resource consumption on system??
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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ghettosynth
KVRAF
11521 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 2:26 pm

telecode wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:27 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:03 pm
EvilDragon wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:16 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:10 am
MX wont have the Reaktor tax though...
It'll have the "bestest DSP quality" tax. ;)
:tu:
can someone pls explain in plain english.

--> "bestest DSP quality tax" <--

the best sound quality vs resource consumption on system??
I interpret that to mean that, like most of Uhe's stuff, high quality in emulation takes precedence. So, in other words, weak ass CPU whiners need not apply. I'll definitely take it out for a spin!

gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1724 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 4:56 pm

chk071 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:51 am
It's quite heavy on mine. Not as heavy as Monark, but, surely in the ballpark of Diva.
Strange , my pc is almost 8 years old
Super 8 takes 20% cpu without effects , 25% with eff. (running at 44khz)
Monark just 10% ( which is running @ 88Khz by default )
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Soul calibrating ..frequencies

ghettosynth
KVRAF
11521 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 7:23 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:56 pm
chk071 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:51 am
It's quite heavy on mine. Not as heavy as Monark, but, surely in the ballpark of Diva.
Strange , my pc is almost 8 years old
Super 8 takes 20% cpu without effects , 25% with eff. (running at 44khz)
Monark just 10% ( which is running @ 88Khz by default )
If you switch Super8 to one voice and double the sample rate then the statement makes sense. On my older machine I get about 5 to 6 % on super8 and about 9% with Monark. Super8 is about 20% on that same machine with the 8 voices at 44.1 and about 33% with 16 voices. That's without effects on Super 8, it jumps up to about 36% with the effects on. That's using Reaktor's meter.

If I switch Super 8 to one voice and double the sample rate, then switch between it, Diva in divine mode and Monark, Reaper says that they all are taking about 5% of CPU give or take and this is about a one to two percent bump from what Reaper says that they are consuming while all three are disabled.

This is all just playing a single note in a two bar loop and playing each synth with its default loading preset. This isn't a good test and my experience tells me that when you load things up you can experience different results.

In any case, this is on a seven year old quad core i7 that you can buy for several hundred dollars today. My conclusion? CPU whiners need to stop buying software and upgrade their machines already.

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jancivil
KVRAF
18240 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 7:30 pm

Fun fact: I tested this repeatedly just out of curiosity. At one point, VE Pro 7 was using 20 some percent more with Reaktor, nothing loaded deleted. I mean it's dynamic, it looks the same either way, there's no notable spike.

I could cherry-pick as though to prove either; in other words, cannot verify or deny it using more with it loaded based in Activity Monitor.

I think the notion that it does is the same typical received and regurgitated conventional wisdom based in nothing we see all the time in the internet era.
Last edited by jancivil on Fri May 10, 2019 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tony10000
KVRist
375 posts since 4 Aug, 2017

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 7:42 pm

On my 8th gen i3, Super 8 uses around 16% and Monark uses 8%.

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jancivil
KVRAF
18240 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 7:49 pm

Here I get the same look in Activity Monitor with Monark loaded, and I mean the_same. With something _playing_ Monark, it can DEFINITELY be a bit of a hog.
Goalpost = Reaktor empty, it's pretty meaningless to my system. i9 tho, 6 cores
Last edited by jancivil on Fri May 10, 2019 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sinisterbr
KVRist
71 posts since 11 Mar, 2010

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 7:51 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:23 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:56 pm
chk071 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:51 am
It's quite heavy on mine. Not as heavy as Monark, but, surely in the ballpark of Diva.
Strange , my pc is almost 8 years old
Super 8 takes 20% cpu without effects , 25% with eff. (running at 44khz)
Monark just 10% ( which is running @ 88Khz by default )
If you switch Super8 to one voice and double the sample rate then the statement makes sense. On my older machine I get about 5 to 6 % on super8 and about 9% with Monark. Super8 is about 20% on that same machine with the 8 voices at 44.1 and about 33% with 16 voices.
Wait, what? Super 8 only goes up to 8 voices

ghettosynth
KVRAF
11521 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 8:08 pm

Sinisterbr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:51 pm
ghettosynth wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:23 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:56 pm
chk071 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:51 am
It's quite heavy on mine. Not as heavy as Monark, but, surely in the ballpark of Diva.
Strange , my pc is almost 8 years old
Super 8 takes 20% cpu without effects , 25% with eff. (running at 44khz)
Monark just 10% ( which is running @ 88Khz by default )
If you switch Super8 to one voice and double the sample rate then the statement makes sense. On my older machine I get about 5 to 6 % on super8 and about 9% with Monark. Super8 is about 20% on that same machine with the 8 voices at 44.1 and about 33% with 16 voices.
Wait, what? Super 8 only goes up to 8 voices
Like all Reaktor instruments that aren't intrinsically limited to some particular polyphony, i.e., mono for, e.g., Monark, or, i.e., fixed poly, for, e.g., ensembles like the old Reaktor version of a popular Oberheim emulation, sorry, blanking on the name right now, you can change the polyphony of the instrument to whatever you want.

Out of the box it is set to eight voice polyphony. You can increase this at the expense of more CPU. I find that 16 voices is a great balance for my use and that varies between 25%(ish) and 35%(ish) cpu depending on which of my studio machines that I'm using. On my older i7, 32 voices is about max. Max with Reaktor is usually something on the order of about 70% CPU on its meter because it will go up dynamically depending on what the ensemble is doing.

Compare that to 2-Osc, a decent synth in the factory library that uses core with oversampling, but not ZDF and I can get 56 voices from that to get about the same CPU usage as 32 in Super8. Finally, compare that with SoundSchool, also a factory library 2 osc analog synth that only uses primary filters, and it takes about 900 voices to get to about the same CPU level on the same machine.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
11521 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Fri May 10, 2019 10:58 pm

tony10000 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:42 pm
On my 8th gen i3, Super 8 uses around 16% and Monark uses 8%.
So as a point of comparison, for people thinking about new CPUs, my 8th gen i7 is about 13% on Super 8 with all effects on and 8 voices playing. That's Reaktor's meter, mind you, which is about just the core that it's running on. That's important from the point of view that Reaktor isn't multicore so it will bound how much you can get from one Reaktor patch.

I can get about 48 voices out of it on that machine at about 70%.

Opening up one of the soundscapes, turning the releases up all the way, and mashing down pads on my push to get as many voices playing at once as I can, I can't top 80% usage in Reaktor and Reaper says that I'm using 6% CPU.
Now, that's with nothing else running so that's not realistic, but it should give you an idea.

Also, and this seems like it might be a bug. The unison feature interferes with Reaktor's unison. That is, the Reaktor unison feature doesn't seem to work With Super 8 and if I engage Super 8's unison and turn the number of voices up beyond 4, it limits the total number of voices to 8. When it's 4 or below, it seems that it is not limiting my polyphony. This is just based on me simply mashing pads, I haven't dug in to see what's going on, but, I can set the voices to 12, the polyphony to 4, hold a low key, then two high keys and no voices drop out. If I set the polyphony to 11, I can hear the low note drop out.

Now, if I set the polyphony to 15, and set the Super 8 unison to 5, I immediately hear low notes drop out as soon as I hold the first high key (while holding a low key). If I then set the polyphony to 16, and the unison back to 4, I can clearly hear no voices dropping out when I hold down four keys. So, based on that, it definitely seems related to when the Super 8 unison setting is higher than 4.

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telecode
KVRian
543 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Sat May 11, 2019 4:24 am

When I was measuring, on my old Mac Mini, S8 played through Reaktor 6 was using about 10%. For the sample demo, 3 Instances of S8 played through Maschine was using hovering about 18%. In comparison, Arturia DX-7 and Jup-v3 was around 5%. (Unless I am looking at the wrong thing. I am looking at user space CPU usage in activity monitor).
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1724 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Sat May 11, 2019 5:15 am

I can't understand why on some pc's monark uses more cpu than s8
As I stated here monark (only ) consumes 10 % @ 88khz default in reaktor standalone , which imho isn't all that much for such a quality plug .
I have an old I5 760 , with 16 gig's of ram running win 10 , using roland integra 7 as an audio interface

s8 = 23.8 % with effects running 8 voices @ 44 Khz
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monark = 10 % @t 88khz
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Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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telecode
KVRian
543 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

Post Sat May 11, 2019 6:45 am

here is my view on a Mac using default init patches. Hmm.. I guess the "steroids" add up to CPU consumption.

https://imgur.com/a/Be2mk3o
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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