FYI!! Melda SoundFactory ON SALE til JUNE 30

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
SLiC
KVRAF
5325 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:43 am

All fair points, but I would argue KVR is the place to discuss the pro's and con's of virtual synthesizers and fx at a technical level, there are a ton of other sites dedicated to musicality and songwriting etc, just this one realy for discussing virtual instruments.


A lot of people dont share their music for a lot of different reasons, In used to put everything out when I was younger and in a band, always trying to get people to listen to my stuff...I haven't put anything put for 10- years now and to be honest rarely finish anything and when I am on the modular stuff, rarely bother even recording anything. I do it for fun, for interest and because it makes me happy to play instruments. I also dont have Facebook, Instagram or any social media presence...I guess I am not in to the 'must share everything' world we live in, but I do like discussing (and trying new) synths :tu:
Win 10 PC+ Surface with an X32 Desk, BWS, Live and Studio One, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

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Ranoka
KVRist
375 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from The UK

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:39 am

There is music made with MSF, people have already begun submitting their One Synth Challenge entries! We've made lots of sounds, but we haven't been sharing them in this thread. I'm still working on my entry, but maybe I'll share some of my favourite sounds once I'm done.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=526204&start=75

You have to remember this is a new synth and people are getting to really know it still. Since it's in beta there aren't many devices/patches yet so you have to largely make your own sounds.
This synth rewards the open minded. There's no point reminding people that you don't like a synth, what's the point in that?

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Dirtgrain
KVRian
1165 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:23 am

sfd wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 am
For a musician sounds are not the basic element of a composition. Other then as something audibly. The core element of a musical composition is - melody.

That is what makes a song memorable. Take any melody by Mozart. What instrument / sound ? It doesn't matter.
You are quite off here in expressing this as an absolute. Consider Muzak. Horrible things have been done to great songs by turning them into elevator music. I don't care to haggle the priority of sound vs. melody, but from my experience, sometimes a sound has inspired a matching/fitting melody. Some of my music has started with a sound that was used to improvise and discover melodies, some of which worked for me.
sfd wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 am
Unsurprisingly nobody talks about MSF in terms of musicality or even as a musical instrument. It's all about technology.

Notably, nobody demonstrates any sound made by this thing. Even less so by illustrating the parameters used - that shows that the sound could only have been made with this thing. And even less so, but not surprisingly, nobody has came out with any music done with this thing.
I'm digging a lot of the sounds I've heard from others in the One Synth Challenge thread--check it out.
sfd wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 am
Notably the waste majority of the fanboys do not make music.
It's been out a couple of months (if that), and you have identified "fanboys" already? What is up with your use of this term? It's a straw man if ever I saw one. Have fun tilting at windmills.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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Dirtgrain
KVRian
1165 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:31 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:09 pm
And what is the point if you can get a warm sound out of a synth, but need hours to tweak it into that result versus just having a warm sound from start?
Its also a matter of taste of course...
You could say the same thing about using presets and sound packs vs. designing your own sounds.

I spent my DIva money on MSF, ha. I will still get DIva at some point (have the demo version), I think, but I feel like Zebra 2 is warm enough for me. MSF offers some things I want to eventually explore in device creation, in using its broad range of tools (I don't own Reaktor, but I do have Ableton, so I have device creation options with Max for Live--still, MSF caught my eye).
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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Dirtgrain
KVRian
1165 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:33 am

One more thing: perhaps we should have an MSF warm sound challenge. Come up with the warmest sound and win street cred.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
3040 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:36 am

rlared wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:17 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:52 pm
Kalamata Kid wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:42 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:51 am
WatchTheGuitar wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:36 am
May just be me, but I'm finding it hard to make warm sounding patches, all a bit sterile sounding. Anyone got any tips for which combo of inbuilt melda effects could help?
Unison, Saturation & Low Pass Filter.

Having said that, this is a digital synth in every respect. You are not going to get it to sound like (insert your favorite analog here) because it's not going to happen.

I use MSF for what it excels in and don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole. If you're looking for fat, warm analog, look elsewhere. This won't give it to you.
Read your post and now am a bit disappointed about the sound of MSF.

I plan to use analogue samples in the Sampler to be released later this year. Yea, the analogue samples are converted to the digital domain but I hope this will be enough to get a "fat, warm analog" sound. I hope this will do the trick as I prefer the "fat, warm analog" sound of music.

Comments please.
It depends on what the sound engine does to those samples.

I'm not holding my breath.
I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to get a "fat, warm analog" sound out of MSF. You can modify the pitch, phase, saturation, filtering, and a zillion other parameters. You can use wavetables if you want to capture the slight variations of the waveforms themselves. What exactly is MSF missing that would prohibit you from getting this type of sound?
Simple , because of the cheap biquad filter algo's .

Melda msf is a powerhouse , but the filters are not on par with everything else that the plugin offers
The scaling feels wrong , and it seems that there are no plans to improve the filters (zdf )
A simple saw into a fast decaying lowpass filter will never give you the punch and snap .
The developer was a even under the impression that a software filter was not able to do convincing audio rate modulation ( diva , zebra, reaktor etcc) I created a topic about .
And this might be verry personal , but I lose confidence when a developer says stuff like that .
There a some freely available zdf filter algo available ( mystran ) , if only he could implement those .
p.s. I am not dissing msf ( to mevla ) :tu: ,
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

rlared
KVRian
632 posts since 1 Aug, 2016

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:18 am

Dirtgrain wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:33 am
One more thing: perhaps we should have an MSF warm sound challenge. Come up with the warmest sound and win street cred.
That's a great idea. I'd suggest we post the presets rather than audio so we take the downsampling out of the equation. Maybe a new thread for this?

Whywhy
KVRian
576 posts since 11 Aug, 2018

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:41 am

@ gentleclockdivider
+ 1, zdf filter is a must have today, and Msf merits to have that!
Perhaps, Vojtech doesn't know about the
mystran algo....

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vurt
addled muppet weed
68753 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:48 am

sfd wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 am
In an earlier comment regarding MSF I said that I consider it being a gimmick of no interest to me as a musician. That comment woke quite a bit of anger among the fanboys.

Sounds are, to some extent but not entirely, what colors are to a painter. Even though more colors allows more options it doesn't necessarily mean a better painting.

For a musician sounds are not the basic element of a composition. Other then as something audibly. The core element of a musical composition is - melody.

That is what makes a song memorable. Take any melody by Mozart. What instrument / sound ? It doesn't matter.

That said, it doesn't mean sounds are irrelevant. Just as colors to a painter are not irrelevant. But what really matters is the motif.

And so, here we've a tool that can tweak sounds into a sub-particle level. Here I can have one thousand rimshots. But what am I going to do with one thousand rimshots ?

Unsurprisingly nobody talks about MSF in terms of musicality or even as a musical instrument. It's all about technology. Where nobody lift their eyes above the tweaking of sub sub sub sonic particles - and views it from a perspective of it's purpose. Creating sounds. And lift their eyes above that - creating music.

Notably, nobody demonstrates any sound made by this thing. Even less so by illustrating the parameters used - that shows that the sound could only have been made with this thing. And even less so, but not surprisingly, nobody has came out with any music done with this thing.

Notably the waste majority of the fanboys do not make music. At least nothing they share in their profiles. And equally as many do not share any sounds either. It's just an obsession to technology without looking at it's core , supposed , purpose.

What matters to me is the motif of the panting and the skill it's made by. Not the chemical components of the colors.

To me, as a musician, it's the end result that counts. For that MSF doesn't change anything. Bartok made great music played on a ridiculously limited instrument as a piano. And so far non of the MSF sub-sonic-particle tweaking fanboys have not show up anything convincing (anything at all actually) that can only have been made thanks to MSF. Especially not musically. Especially not as an illustration that MSF makes any relevant difference, of any significance, to the - music.
then just avoid the thread :shrug:
why does it matter to you what others do?
that's a question for you to mull over internally, i dont need the answer.

Greenstorm33
KVRian
740 posts since 27 Apr, 2012

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:50 am

I was kind of hoping there would be plans to include additional filter models in the turbofilter module. Adding models of famous hardware filters seems like it's in line with the design philosophy of the other "turbo" modules. I really hope this is the case as the existing filter situation unnecessarily cripples what is otherwise a very impressive synth.
Softsynth addict and electronic music enthusiast.
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."

Greenstorm33
KVRian
740 posts since 27 Apr, 2012

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:03 am

sfd wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 am
SNIP
Why don't you go find a Reaktor or Max thread and whine about that since you apparently have such an issue with people enjoying a synthesis system that gives you a lot of control over how your sound is created?
Softsynth addict and electronic music enthusiast.
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."

Kwurqx
KVRian
588 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:29 am

Kalamata Kid wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:42 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:51 am
WatchTheGuitar wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:36 am
May just be me, but I'm finding it hard to make warm sounding patches, all a bit sterile sounding. Anyone got any tips for which combo of inbuilt melda effects could help?
Unison, Saturation & Low Pass Filter.

Having said that, this is a digital synth in every respect. You are not going to get it to sound like (insert your favorite analog here) because it's not going to happen.

I use MSF for what it excels in and don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole. If you're looking for fat, warm analog, look elsewhere. This won't give it to you.
Read your post and now am a bit disappointed about the sound of MSF.

I plan to use analogue samples in the Sampler to be released later this year. Yea, the analogue samples are converted to the digital domain but I hope this will be enough to get a "fat, warm analog" sound. I hope this will do the trick as I prefer the "fat, warm analog" sound of music.

Comments please.
Loading analogue samples to get the "fat, warm analog"sound of music? Are you sure you want/need a synthesizer? A sample (unless single cycle/wavetable) is not the same as an oscillator.

Using samples of analog gear (or any sample for that matter) as a basis for further synthesizing is notoriously difficult. Unless you are talking (very) long samples: full recordings.

So many "variables and specifics are fixed/set into the sample(s). You will loose "full control" of those when using longer samples (looped or single shot).
Dirtgrain wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:33 am
One more thing: perhaps we should have an MSF warm sound challenge. Come up with the warmest sound and win street cred.
Warmest sound? Street cred?

Maybe those who are looking for analog or warmth provide some sort objective audio example/reference? Then we can see if MSF (or any other synth/tools) can (re)produce something similar.

BTW. It's enough a challenge to really repoduce any specific sound, even if you have the appropriate/same gear available...

David
KVRAF
1910 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:01 am

Jeez…just SHUT UP, everyone!! There's a MUSICIAN here! If we're very good, maybe he'll type again!

(hey, what's a piano??)

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Dirtgrain
KVRian
1165 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:01 am

Ya, when wondering if Zebra 2 was all I would want, I set about trying to recreate some of the Diva presets. I did okay with it. I do think some Diva presets could be the reference point, but I am far from the one on KVR who should be making the call on what is "warm."

"Street cred" was a joke, mate.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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vurt
addled muppet weed
68753 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:02 am

damn i was hoping to win some :cry:

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