Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Per Salbark
KVRist
32 posts since 15 Apr, 2013 from Sweden

Post Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:32 pm

Adding some details on Phase Plant by Kilohearts:

Version # used & List Price:
Phase Plant 1.7.3: $169 - $349

GUI (very subjective):
Phase Plant: Dark gray and neon blue theme. Big waveforms that update on modulation. One-screen interface without tabs. Some pop-out editors.

Number of Factory Wavetables:
Phase Plant: ≈ 200

3rd Party & DIY Wavetables:
Phase Plant: Loads common wavetable formats. Include your own wt-folder. Loads WAVs. Full import/convert editor. Has full WT editor to modify or create new.

Wavetable Organization:
Phase Plant: Uses the folder structure on your computer, so however you like.

Number of Wavetable Oscs:
Phase Plant: Up to 32. (Doesn't have to be WT-generators. Can be Analog/Sampler/Noise)

Wavetable Modulations:
Phase Plant: Custom linear or Spectral Morphs. No pre-defined Bend-modes, but you can set them up through the extensive FM/PMing capabilities. The WT editor offers many morhpable effects such as Automatic EQing, Comb Filtering, Dispersing, Phase Offset, "Power Sync", Rectify, Self-FM e.t.c. And many other tools.

Number of additional audible Oscs:
Phase Plant: Does not apply.

Noise oscs:
Phase Plant: Up to 32 (as said before) parametric Noice generators. Also comes with a bunch of noise WTs.

Non-WT osc engines:
Phase Plant: Classic subtractive analog osc, Sampler that can be bullied into some grain stuff.

Unison:
Phase Plant: Each generator can have up to 8 voices. There is up to 8 global unison, and there are several FX modules that create even more voices. Current record is close to 2000 simultaneous voices I think :)

Able to add distortion before or between filters:
Phase Plant: Yes. Put them anywhere you like in your routing. Either in the generator stack, or in the FX lanes.

ARP/ Sequencer:
Phase Plant: No midi effects, if that's what you are asking? You can create simple arpeggios and sequences with the freeform LFOs if you like.

Total LFO/Mseg/Envelope Modulators:
Phase Plant: Any number of each.

LFOs:
Phase Plant: Any number. Custom editor for shapes.

Envelopes:
Phase Plant: Any Number. Each group that is to make a sound needs an output module and it has an ENV built in. On top of that you can add any number of extras in the modulator lane.

MSEG
Phase Plant: The custom LFOs double as MSEGs.

Macros:
Phase Plant: 8 Macro knobs. Because of the modular nature many parameters are not available for automation, but have to be routed through a macro first.

CPU Usage:
Phase Plant: I can't recreate your test in a reliable manner, so you might want to download the trial and do it yourself.

Midi Support:
Phase Plant: Note, Pressure/Aftertouch, Velocity. Midi-bind on macros.

Screen resolution at 100%:
Phase Plant: 1247px wide initially. Height freely resizable.

Resizeable:
Phase Plant: Yes, in 5% increments up to 500%, or as big as your screen. High-DPI compatible.

Hardware accelerated:
Phase Plant: No

Visualisation (is there a modulation depth preview)?
Phase Plant: Yes.

How many GUI themes are included by the vendor? Dark/Bright/Color?
Phase Plant: 0

Drag and Drop modulation?
Phase Plant: Yes

User avatar
4damind
KVRAF
4852 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:43 am

Great overview! Dune3 and Hive2 should be added (as others have already mentioned).

I have been using Serum since 2014 and Steve Duda has really set the bar very high. Everything that followed had to compete with Serum ;)
I'm not talking about Massive X which in my opinion is an unfinished and mediocre implemented "me too" synth. But some synths like Rapid are worth a closer look.

Btw. I think it's very important which functions the wavetable editor has (if any). There are some tricks like removing harmonic overtones that are used for bass sounds. So a FFT Area for drawing harmonics is very useful.

v1o
KVRAF
1686 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:12 am

jeffb01 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:42 pm
More to come.
Incomplete without Europa.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

User avatar
jeffb01
KVRian
876 posts since 18 Apr, 2006

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:31 am

Per Salbark wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:32 pm
Adding some details on Phase Plant by Kilohearts:

Version # used & List Price:
Phase Plant 1.7.3: $169 - $349
thank you. I will try to add this to the op after I test (give me a few days). My demo expired so I may pm you with some questions.
Last edited by jeffb01 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
jeffb01
KVRian
876 posts since 18 Apr, 2006

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:32 am

v1o wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:12 am
jeffb01 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:42 pm
More to come.
Incomplete without Europa.
I would like to add Europa. If you want to write it up, I will test it in my demo version.

perpetual3
KVRian
807 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:41 am

v1o wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:12 am
jeffb01 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:42 pm
More to come.
Incomplete without Europa.
Or Fathom.

User avatar
exmatproton
KVRAF
2313 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:08 pm

great list! nice overview. thnx for that work!

cytospur
KVRian
1296 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:48 am

v1o wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:12 am
jeffb01 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:42 pm
More to come.
Incomplete without Europa.
You try telling that to the Brits.
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.

Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt

PieBerger
KVRist
336 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:59 am

cytospur wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:48 am
v1o wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:12 am
jeffb01 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:42 pm
More to come.
Incomplete without Europa.
You try telling that to the Brits.
:lol:
Always Read the Manual!

User avatar
LoveEnigma18
KVRian
817 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:43 am

@jeffb01: Excellent job. :tu: :clap:

I have Massive X and Pigments and I do not see any need or want to get any other wavetable synth ever. The options offered by these two are overwhelming (good way!) and beyond I could comprehend in many years to come. :)

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3243 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:17 am

Indeed very good overview!

Also good to add Dune 3 and Hive 2. Aswel maybe Zebra 2/ZebraHZ as they also have wavetables. Dont forget Synthmaster One and Two!

biscuitdough
KVRer
5 posts since 8 Jun, 2019

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:51 am

I think Fathom, Dune, Hive, Synthmaster and Predator should be the next ones added. Hopefully the Fathom dev will take a look at this thread, because I think a lot of he interpolation discussion would be interesting to him.

User avatar
msvs
KVRian
1431 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:01 pm

really nice comparison with a lot of data... however
some changes for AVENGER:

Total LFO/Mseg/Envelope Modulators:
33 (1 amp envelope, 4 filter envelopes, 4 LFOs, 8 MSEG, 8 sequencers, 8 arps)

- it are 4 amp envelopes


same for "Envelopes:" section
- it are 4 amp envelopes (+all 8 ModEnvelopes can be selected as source for AMP or Filter)


3rd Party & DIY Wavetables: Tedious as you have to import one at a time into proprietary format. Basic editing is available
- well the "resampler" module is for creating wavetables. Its just few clicks, if the imported sample is suitable for being converted to a wavetable. Can be any monophonic frequency sweep or vocal. You can select an area which should be exported as a WT and you need to know the original pitch of the sample. Done.

Wavetable Modulations:
- you totally forgot the FFT, which is unique. You can control any partial of the WT, nearly an additive synth. You can sweep and filter and move these partials

Filters:
you also forgot the LP/HP filter from the FFT there. It can have an variable slope (up to infinite) which is interesting, and can be modulated by any envelope

Midi Support:
- there a many more in the mod matrix as the ones you listed

Wavetable Organization:
-you should mention that we have a text search fiels. When you selected the WT category and then enter "bass" as text string, it shows all WTs with Bass in the name.


Number of Factory Wavetables: Avenger 600
- these are the complex wavetables, There are thousands of "static" shapes, which can be bend, formant sweeped and modulated like the wavetables. Just want to mention it :)

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2773 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:03 am

The number of wavetables is a pure marketing (fake)argument. Imagine it had 1 million wave tables. How would you be able as a poor human being to deal with it? Its better to just have an option to build your own...
It reminds me on the number of blades in razors. I think you can get them with 8. But a single one is mostly better and anything above two is definitely getting worse...

cytospur
KVRian
1296 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK

Re: Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

Post Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:35 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:03 am
The number of wavetables is a pure marketing (fake)argument. Imagine it had 1 million wave tables. How would you be able as a poor human being to deal with it? Its better to just have an option to build your own...
It reminds me on the number of blades in razors. I think you can get them with 8. But a single one is mostly better and anything above two is definitely getting worse...
My disposable razor has 4+1 blades, and has a vibrating head, which makes it a much nicer, and better, shave. This goes to prove that wavetable synths with audio rate modulation are better :hihi:
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.

Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt

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