Massive X - the thread

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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pdxindy
KVRAF
15807 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:56 am

drdriller wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:01 am
chk071 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:31 am
My assumption: They assume that many people will get it with Komplete 12, and that Massive X was a big factor for the decision to get Komplete 12. And, secondly, they assume that people will get Massive X on Black Friday, or similar sale opportunities.
people buying it as a single product are more willing to wait for a few updates so the products get close to a real release version.
I'm not planning to uninstall Massive X... no point. I'm not going to sell Komplete. If I had purchased MX individually, I might well sell it right now. I've basically concluded that its deficiencies are enough of a hinderance for me that I am not inclined to invest my time in building up my own preset library and really learning the synth.

I am not at all confident that the various things that are issues for me are seen that way by NI. For one example, it would not surprise me if NI does not significantly improve the browser and instead expects users to use Komplete Kontrol. I am not using KK and will not be. I don't feel like what I want and what appears to be NI's vision/roadmap are congruent so I don't generally invest my time much in NI's stuff.

I can look at MX again in a year and maybe my conclusion will be different, but I don't expect it to be.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12044 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:28 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:36 am
xanderevo wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:11 am
It's a good synth,
nothing more that u-he/serum/anysynth has in 2019.

I live in germany, but sometimes I feel myself having a really bad time understanding german humor.
I'm talking about the crossgrade price, why do we even need one if it's 149€?

I don't get it.

Then about the pricing policies, let´s say MX is like what 200€? if you put for example a Monark in top of it are 300€ while Komplete 12 costs 599€.

As if someone walks into a car dealer company, "this car would be 50.000€, and that one for your wife 25.000€, but if you buy the whole f. parking lot with 50 cars it will make 99.000€"

It makes totally sense buying single plugins and not having a 220GB living graveyard on the hard drive

/phun
I upgraded to K12 for $99 to get Massive X... I have not installed 90% of Komplete. You have the choice what of that 220GB you want to install.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would expect bundles to make sense when they don't. If you don't expect to use enough of the bundle to justify the price then why would you buy it?

IMO, I don't think that there's a better overall value in the industry, but I use a large number of the products in the bundle. Not all of them mind you, still don't have the orchestral stuff installed on my main machine.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18413 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:01 am

Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:27 pm
Really thinking that the plan NI has for Massive X and likely other new and/or updated instruments is to lean heavily on the Komplete Kontrol environment as the primary place for preset browsing

Might not ever see a change to Massive X's own browser if so.
I'm pretty sure the browser is not going to stay as it is now, regardless of the existence of KK.

Ph-J
KVRist
264 posts since 13 May, 2003

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:48 am

about MPE support, is it something that can be added afterwards ?
Or since it wasn't a consideration in the beginning, there's little chance for it to come in a future update ?

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30926 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:07 pm

Ph-J wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:48 am
about MPE support, is it something that can be added afterwards ?
Don't see why not - Serum just added it for example

User avatar
Jim Rosebrook
KVRer
15 posts since 6 Mar, 2012 from Chillicothe, Ohio

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:08 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:01 am
Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:27 pm
Really thinking that the plan NI has for Massive X and likely other new and/or updated instruments is to lean heavily on the Komplete Kontrol environment as the primary place for preset browsing

Might not ever see a change to Massive X's own browser if so.
I'm pretty sure the browser is not going to stay as it is now, regardless of the existence of KK.
That would make some happy no doubt. I personally, DO like what is developing with KK as a smart environment to organize and access Komplete content. Bring on more please!

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15807 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:16 pm

Ph-J wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:48 am
about MPE support, is it something that can be added afterwards ?
Or since it wasn't a consideration in the beginning, there's little chance for it to come in a future update ?
It could be added... however, NI has never shown any interest in it, so I would not count on it anytime soon if ever

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
3874 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:42 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:16 pm
Ph-J wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:48 am
about MPE support, is it something that can be added afterwards ?
Or since it wasn't a consideration in the beginning, there's little chance for it to come in a future update ?
It could be added... however, NI has never shown any interest in it, so I would not count on it anytime soon if ever
Unless NI and ROLI merge their businesses... :o
Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

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JoeCat
KVRian
1238 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:35 pm

I'm not taking part (or taking sides) anymore in the debate over the direction of Reaktor (since the introduction of the new Blocks / Racks features), but there's been similar unease among those users (including super-users and developers like herw, who have added greatly to the value of the product) as to that product's direction and target market.

NI's been responsive to questions and suggestions in their forums, if a bit defensive (sometimes uncalled for IMHO, sometimes not, since I empathize with a developer defending themselves against negative accusations based on assumptions about their intent, as in "you're just doing that to sell more this and don't care about us", etc.)

You can have a reasonable, civilized opinion (maybe not here :hihi: ) about a developer's decisions , and it looks like NI's product line is leaning in a direction that rewards investment in their ecosystem - there's nothing unethical about that at all, just a business decision, but one that has a lot of pitfalls in the music industry. Super 8 looks like it's being positioned as an introduction to synthesis and a companion to the inexpensive M32 controller (which I own, and even though I am not a Kompletionist, 'cause it's a great little 2 1/2 octave controller in its own right) - that's right there in the pic on their Super 8 page.

Massive X is a different product altogether and has a large potential market outside Komplete's user-base, and I can't imagine they'd hamstring it by forcing an investment in Komplete / NKS to make it even moderately usable.

So cautiously optimistic about things like a proper preset browser. I own Komplete and upgraded 'cause I do use enough Komplete instruments enough to make that investment worth my while, but I'm not invested in the ecosystem (I store my patches a Ableton presets, for example, to take advantage of the Rack groupings and macros). But I'm not investing my time heavily yet, since they'll probably be changes and better docs down the line. I'm thinking a lot of non-Komplete producers will wait until Black Friday - that may be NI's target for a more complete (no pun) package.

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Jim Rosebrook
KVRer
15 posts since 6 Mar, 2012 from Chillicothe, Ohio

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:29 pm

JoeCat wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:35 pm
... and it looks like NI's product line is leaning in a direction that rewards investment in their ecosystem - there's nothing unethical about that at all, just a business decision..... Massive X is a different product altogether and has a large potential market outside Komplete's user-base, and I can't imagine they'd hamstring it by forcing an investment in Komplete / NKS to make it even moderately usable....
Yep.. I'm a one of those persons that really likes the concept of an integrated ecosystem, and will always root for the success of such things. Lots of failed attempts over the years, but I think NI has a good chance of getting enough pieces in place to get over the hump of attaining critical mass.

And there isn't too much of an end-user's investment anymore. KK is free, and will work with 3rd party controllers.

I fire up KK as a stand-alone app often to play VI instruments outside of a DAW, building my arsenal of sounds in a DAW-agnostic fashion.

And be aware that KK lets you play & catalog non-Komplete instruments too. My VI from IK Multimedia, Superior Drummer 3 and non-NKS UJAM Basses all are available in KK.

Bring it on!

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PatchAdamz
KVRAF
4669 posts since 13 Nov, 2012

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:19 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:03 pm
Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:27 pm
Really thinking that the plan NI has for Massive X and likely other new and/or updated instruments is to lean heavily on the Komplete Kontrol environment as the primary place for preset browsing

Might not ever see a change to Massive X's own browser if so.
I thought that too but the fact is they have to at least make it capable of creating patches that have tags and organise them into banks because while you can tag in KK it's very clunky and organising banks is impossible without being a developer (unless they expect only pro content developers make banks).
Yes, it only makes sense to have those basic features.
Many synths they have designed have evolved over time.
I have no doubt that will be the case for Massive X.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15807 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:47 pm

Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:29 pm
JoeCat wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:35 pm
... and it looks like NI's product line is leaning in a direction that rewards investment in their ecosystem - there's nothing unethical about that at all, just a business decision..... Massive X is a different product altogether and has a large potential market outside Komplete's user-base, and I can't imagine they'd hamstring it by forcing an investment in Komplete / NKS to make it even moderately usable....
Yep.. I'm a one of those persons that really likes the concept of an integrated ecosystem, and will always root for the success of such things. Lots of failed attempts over the years, but I think NI has a good chance of getting enough pieces in place to get over the hump of attaining critical mass.

And there isn't too much of an end-user's investment anymore. KK is free, and will work with 3rd party controllers.

I fire up KK as a stand-alone app often to play VI instruments outside of a DAW, building my arsenal of sounds in a DAW-agnostic fashion.

And be aware that KK lets you play & catalog non-Komplete instruments too. My VI from IK Multimedia, Superior Drummer 3 and non-NKS UJAM Basses all are available in KK.

Bring it on!
I am never going to use KK... I prefer to use my DAW... I don't want another layer of complexity inbetween.

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Forgotten
KVRian
1093 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:34 pm

pdxindy wrote:I am never going to use KK... I prefer to use my DAW... I don't want another layer of complexity inbetween
I've often wondered why people use KK for exactly that reason.

It reminds me of how old people want to read a TV guide rather than just channel surf.

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digitalboytn
KVRian
1377 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:57 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:47 pm

I am never going to use KK... I prefer to use my DAW... I don't want another layer of complexity inbetween.
:tu:

Simple is good and there is also the fact that you don't want to become too dependant on NI's Kontrol...

I remember too well what they did to Kore :wink:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

drdriller
KVRist
238 posts since 6 Feb, 2017

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:22 am

KK is a pain, no real macros, no FX controls, can only control the first device of the chain, not fully compatible with ableton instrument rack..

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