Massive X - the thread

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
SLiC
KVRAF
3687 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:48 am

Also never found any real use for KK and I am a Komplete Ultimate user. I guess it only makes sense as the plug in for their hardware keyboards. It amazes me that they had it so nearly right with Kore and then 10 years later have nothing even close to what they had, all the had to do was port Kore in to the keyboard format! They make some dumb ass design decisions IMHO- if they had ever made that workstation keyboard with Maschine built in (that so many people have been asking for) they would have cleaned up!
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, Cubase10, Live9, X32 Desk. , DM12, P8, Virus TI, Syst1m, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, MPC Live, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

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Jim Rosebrook
KVRer
15 posts since 6 Mar, 2012 from Chillicothe, Ohio

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:38 am

My experience with KK has been a net positive. Great to have a search filter for a particular type of sound reach out to all your VI instruments for candidates. Great to have a sonic preview without needing to load an instrument. Great to have your curated palette of sounds exist outside your DAW for those of us that switch between several DAW's.

Never has been any such ecosystem to emerge fully-formed from the womb, and the evolution of KK has been on an "ok" pace of improvement. Definitely things I wish were there now, but already a very useful tool.

Any complexity it adds is/can be offset by the a greater simplicity of overall user experience down the road. Growing pains are just how it is in the meantime.

And all these points about KK are relevant to Massive X because some of the things Massive X is weak on at the moment might find improvements being provided within KK as a forward path.

Dare I say.. we might not even really need a stand-alone version of Massive X......

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JoeCat
KVRian
1238 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:45 am

Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:38 am
My experience with KK has been a net positive...
OT, but I'm thinking you may hold a KVR record for least number of posts over the longest time! :hihi:

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Jim Rosebrook
KVRer
15 posts since 6 Mar, 2012 from Chillicothe, Ohio

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:11 am

JoeCat wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:45 am
Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:38 am
My experience with KK has been a net positive...
OT, but I'm thinking you may hold a KVR record for least number of posts over the longest time! :hihi:
Up to now everything's been fine. :ud:

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15807 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:39 am

Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:38 am
Any complexity it adds is/can be offset by the a greater simplicity of overall user experience down the road. Growing pains are just how it is in the meantime.
That is always the claim of complex systems... that they will somehow simplify life. The historical data overwhelmingly says otherwise.
Jim Rosebrook wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:38 am
Dare I say.. we might not even really need a stand-alone version of Massive X......
Of course it is up to NI to do things however they want and develop their vision over time. They may well be making a smart choice for the majority of their user-base, it is just unlikely to include me.

Maybe I would have some interest in something like KK if NI in general made choices that better suited my interests.

For example, I find how u-he does things, fits what I want. I am not trying to claim one company is objectively better than another, just that one fits my interests better.

All u-he plugins are using an integrated framework. All the GUI's resize and share a set of preference options. They all have exceptional midi learn support. They all have Undo/Redo and an excellent and flexible browser which can be a simple directory structure, or full on tagging system. The synths support MPE (except Zebra atm), Poly AT, and the standard midi controllers like Expression Pedal and Breath Controller. Any new plugin and all the basics are already there and well covered and if any new plugin has some improvement on those basics, those improvements then eventually migrate to the existing plugins. U-he has a clear vision that they have articulated and are working towards.

When NI announced Massive X as a next generation, flagship synth, I thought it might be the start of a new direction. It surely has some innovative and impressive stuff with the sound engine... but most of the basics are just missing (it does have GUI scaling). It is not even possible to assign a controller knob to filter cutoff!! I can agree with calling the sound engine next generation but in a number of other ways, it is back to the stone age!

So for me, the thing with KK is half that I don't really feel a need for it, and the other half is that I don't trust NI's vision... they do not really articulate where they are going and too many decisions in the present I don't like. So I'm not going to depend on them for some sort of framework like KK even if I wanted the tool. And of course what they did with Kore is a cautionary tale.

40watt
KVRist
41 posts since 22 May, 2004 from UK

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:18 am

A couple of years ago I had some spare cash and I was looking for a solution to speed up my work flow and make music a bit more immediate than it was with just Cubase and a synth. I stupidly tried a Push and Ableton, the stupid part was mine as being a Cubase user of some time I had some difficulty adapting to the work flow of Ableton, its an excellent system if you actually use Ableton....
So then the Mk3 and the S61 came out, I thought Machine is a VST plugin, works with Cubase, sounds interesting. After a bit of thought I sold the Push and Ableton and invested in NI.
I must say almost 2 years later I'm not unhappy about that decision, sure when NI said the would support FX plugins and didn't actually release an FX plugin, and the complete lack of VST3 support, I wonder about their thought process, but on the whole I'm very happy with KK and Machine, its a lot of fun. Added to the fact they have chosen some valuable partners, namely u-he who's synths I love to use in KK, its so nice to have those important parameters in front of you clearly labeled without having to do the mapping thing. KK with Diva and Hive 2 have become my default experience.
In summary, I agree with Jim my KK experience has been on the net positive side so far, but I also agree that NI seem a bit attention deficit at times and hard of hearing to their customers (that will be the Berlin clubs for you) ;-)
IMHO MassiveX is a typical NI launch, huge hype, good core product, but unfinished, and it may never be...

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3243 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:08 pm

I love the sound alot of this synth, and even tho im not a fan of other things related to GUI and browser, despite the shortcomings (whom i hope will be improved) the more i use Massive X the more i starting to love.

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rod_zero
KVRAF
3018 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:49 pm

So after some days of testing:

1.- UI is not intuitive, a clear downgrade from original massive
2.- Sound is good but nothing groundbreaking
3.- I still consider reaktor blocks a more innovative product.
dedication to flying

perpetual3
KVRian
807 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:11 pm

I absolutely disagree about the sound.

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Ficciones
KVRer
10 posts since 1 Jul, 2019

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:13 pm

After spending some time with Massive X... no sir, I don't like it. I wouldn't have paid for it, it just came along with Komplete so maybe I'll find a use for it.

Here's what I don't like.

- It handles like a cow. Feels like giving a girl in galoshes a footmassage. (maybe this is your idea of a good time but it is not mine)

- It sounds just OK by 2019 standards.

- It adds 64 samples of latency. What's up with that?! It ain't curing cancer here, fellas.

- the GUI looks tired. And it also makes me think that this is fundamentally a polyphonic Reaktor blocks ensemble with the hood welded shut.

NI should apologize for releasing it.

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fisherKing
KVRAF
1852 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:55 pm

Ficciones wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:13 pm
After spending some time with Massive X... no sir, I don't like it. I wouldn't have paid for it, it just came along with Komplete so maybe I'll find a use for it.

Here's what I don't like.

- It handles like a cow. Feels like giving a girl in galoshes a footmassage. (maybe this is your idea of a good time but it is not mine)

- It sounds just OK by 2019 standards.

- It adds 64 samples of latency. What's up with that?! It ain't curing cancer here, fellas.

- the GUI looks tired. And it also makes me think that this is fundamentally a polyphonic Reaktor blocks ensemble with the hood welded shut.

NI should apologize for releasing it.
should they apologize to the people who really like it? (or, issues notwithstanding, really like the sound of it?).

it needs work, but it works now. and sounds great (to some of us)...
always one plugin short of perfection...

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Forgotten
KVRian
1093 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 pm

Ficciones wrote:NI should apologize for releasing it.
Just because you don't like it?

Dude, commerce doesn't work that way...

Stefken
KVRian
1351 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:35 pm

Well, some people feel cheated.
NI didn't communicate well about the avx issue. Some people are very surprised they cannot run it but they won't be getting a refund. Hmmm.

I assume quite a lot of people got Komplete 12 mainly because of MX and they didn't quite get what they expected either. I for one have never seen an official release with that many flaws. If u-he releases a release candidate, it's pretty much perfection compared to this.

So, there's that.

v1o
KVRAF
1686 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:27 pm

40watt wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:18 am
IMHO MassiveX is a typical NI launch, huge hype, good core product, but unfinished, and it may never be...
I dunno about hype. There was a complete drought of info in the few months prior to release. No one really knew what to expect honestly or if there might be another delay. And on release day they kind of just snuck out a brief but uninformative promo video on YouTube.

It’s like this year’s Summer sale. It was the most half hearted sale ever. They didn’t even update their own website or send emails out until a few days after the sale had already started.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

v1o
KVRAF
1686 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: Massive X - the thread

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:51 pm

Ficciones wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:13 pm
After spending some time with Massive X... no sir, I don't like it. I wouldn't have paid for it, it just came along with Komplete so maybe I'll find a use for it.

Here's what I don't like.

- It handles like a cow. Feels like giving a girl in galoshes a footmassage. (maybe this is your idea of a good time but it is not mine)

- It sounds just OK by 2019 standards.

- It adds 64 samples of latency. What's up with that?! It ain't curing cancer here, fellas.

- the GUI looks tired. And it also makes me think that this is fundamentally a polyphonic Reaktor blocks ensemble with the hood welded shut.

NI should apologize for releasing it.
Good job there. Joined on the first of July right after MX was released. Have only 5 posts.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

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