ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1957 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:07 am

I don't want to spoil the fl studio thread ,.
I noticed that some patterns can not be replicated sonically on transistor bass due to the accent behaviour , and slides .
Altough Transistor's bass parameters are not scaled correctly , this should not be any reason why it can't replicate certain patterns
Now if image claims that they used a real 303 which they modelled transistor bass upon , it should be no problem to adapt abl3 patterns into transitor bass .
Why Abl3 you may ask , first because I don't have a real 303 and second ..because it's regarded as the closest emulation to date , so imho it makes sense to compare the two
Anyone with a real 303 or an RE 303 can chime in .
No Fl studio blind fanboyism allowed without real life examples .
Keep in mind that transistor bass is 2 octaves above by default



Image
And audio file
First 2 bars abl 3, second one transistor
https://app.box.com/s/xcf5e19k1ocwxd2u7mr0pe9gl2ts2j2z
In this example ( transistor bass) ,when transistor bass has a note with a slide on it, it is prologued by ungated notes
So this pattern can not be replicated correctly from abl3 to transistor bass
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1957 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:26 am

And here's another example of how the accent on transistor bass is missed on step 9 , because step 7 had a slide followed by an empty step 8 which prolongued/augmented step 7 , resulting in a missing accent on step 9
Image
First 2 bars abl3 , followed by transistor
https://app.box.com/s/rjzj1zbwnb430d824jezdl15s1rcpdoy
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1957 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:11 pm

This thread will be a succes :)
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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Halonmusic
KVRAF
2485 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:00 am

It isnt yet
Don't be a Sheep. :borg: | Opinions matters :evil:

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Image-Line
KVRian
973 posts since 2 Dec, 2010 from Belgium, EU.

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:10 am

As I noted in the other thread ...
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:28 am
Are you saying that the audio file in the video is abl3 ??
I took the project from zamrate and spend 10 minutes making some tweaks.

Green clip = ABL3 (yours)
Blue clip = Transistor Bass (live, my attempt to match the green audio
Red clip = Transistor Bass (your attempt to match the green audio)

https://youtu.be/xUyGJGZlhMs

So what did you do wrong? Its clear to me you made a mistake in programming, and complained Transistor Bass was nothing like another emulation. I say this because -

1. Your last note should have been a C6 in Transistor Bass but was a C5
2. It does not appear that you spent much effort tweaking Transistor Bass to match your "gold-standard".

I am fairly sure I could get closer to ABL3, and no they don't sound identical. But I would not expect them to. Why?

First, I am no Transistor Bass expert (I am a hack) and tweaked for 10 minutes fairly randomly on controls until they were close.

Second, its always very difficult to match exactly another plugin when it is set as a standard without a project and any context (I have no idea how you made the audio presented). If you like I can upload some genuine TB-303 audio and you can try to match it, to see how difficult this is.

Third and most importantly, Transistor Bass was designed to sound like a genuine TB-303. That is all that matters here, not if it sounds like ABL3 (regardless of how acclaimed it is). Here's Transistor Bass vs a real TB-303. A real TB-303 was our standard, that's what we modeled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZeZzwQwpA

For those complaining about knob scaling, well we decided to make Transistor Bass better, in some ways, than the original. The step sequencer is far more advanced, most synthesis controls can be further tweaked way beyond the original and it integrates perfectly with the FL Studio Piano roll. It was never intended to be a photocopy of a TB-303.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pFYx8QwkLI

Finally, lets not get wrapped around the axle here. Remember the whole point of all this software is to have fun and make music. I am sure Crowd Control wasn't obsessing about how 'authentic' his Transistor Bass sound was, instead he was creating this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oojYSlVU_3s
Image-Line are proud developers of - FL Studio, FL Studio Mobile & Audio Plugins.

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Halonmusic
KVRAF
2485 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:26 am

Image-Line wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:10 am
As I noted in the other thread ...
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:28 am
Are you saying that the audio file in the video is abl3 ??
I took the project from zamrate and spend 10 minutes making some tweaks.

Green clip = ABL3 (yours)
Blue clip = Transistor Bass (live, my attempt to match the green audio
Red clip = Transistor Bass (your attempt to match the green audio)

https://youtu.be/xUyGJGZlhMs

So what did you do wrong? Its clear to me you made a mistake in programming, and complained Transistor Bass was nothing like another emulation. I say this because -

1. Your last note should have been a C6 in Transistor Bass but was a C5
2. It does not appear that you spent much effort tweaking Transistor Bass to match your "gold-standard".

I am fairly sure I could get closer to ABL3, and no they don't sound identical. But I would not expect them to. Why?

First, I am no Transistor Bass expert (I am a hack) and tweaked for 10 minutes fairly randomly on controls until they were close.

Second, its always very difficult to match exactly another plugin when it is set as a standard without a project and any context (I have no idea how you made the audio presented). If you like I can upload some genuine TB-303 audio and you can try to match it, to see how difficult this is.

Third and most importantly, Transistor Bass was designed to sound like a genuine TB-303. That is all that matters here, not if it sounds like ABL3 (regardless of how acclaimed it is). Here's Transistor Bass vs a real TB-303. A real TB-303 was our standard, that's what we modeled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZeZzwQwpA

For those complaining about knob scaling, well we decided to make Transistor Bass better, in some ways, than the original. The step sequencer is far more advanced, most synthesis controls can be further tweaked way beyond the original and it integrates perfectly with the FL Studio Piano roll. It was never intended to be a photocopy of a TB-303.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pFYx8QwkLI

Finally, lets not get wrapped around the axle here. Remember the whole point of all this software is to have fun and make music. I am sure Crowd Control wasn't obsessing about how 'authentic' his Transistor Bass sound was, instead he was creating this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oojYSlVU_3s
:tu:
Don't be a Sheep. :borg: | Opinions matters :evil:

chk071
KVRAF
20836 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:29 am

Know what's a big issue in the sound examples for me? The onboard distortion. Sounds pretty digital/boring (check the Da Funk example especially).

Other than that, i'm quite impressed by the comparison between Transistor Bass and the real TB-303. Pretty close. Maybe a bit more bass/top end on the Transistor Bass. But... resonant behavior seems to be pretty spot on.

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whannel
KVRist
52 posts since 28 Mar, 2007 from Scotland

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:15 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:07 am
No Fl studio blind fanboyism allowed without real life examples .
In the other thread Image-Line were suggested to be making a free synth for the money. In the real world if they wanted money, surely like ABL3 they'd sell this as a VST, given how close to a real 303 it sounds?
Nova II, FL20+Fire, Sytrus, Transistor Bass, Dune 3, ANA 2, SynthMaster, Thorn, Discovery, SugarBytes, SoundToys, BYOME, Plugin-Alliance addiction, iZotope MPS 2
One day: FLEXXX, Lion, Alpha Forever, Viper, Pianoteq, Zebra 3, Diversion 2, Omnisphere, Pigments

Reefius
KVRian
663 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Belgium

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:49 am

I don't see the point of only emulating the sound of a 303 without also emulating the behaviour of the controls. A 303 is the whole package, that's what makes it so special. To me those 'improvements' as IL calls them are actually design flaws.

People don't want an 'improved' emulation, they want something as close as possible to the original.

The Roland Cloud 303 and ABL3 both take the crown here.

Trancit
KVRAF
2207 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:52 am

Image-Line wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:10 am
Second, its always very difficult to match exactly another plugin when it is set as a standard without a project and any context ...
It´s not just difficult... it´s impossible... as soon as filters and modulations are involved, different synths (even if they emulate the same thing) sound and act too different...
There might be an "come close" but never an "exactly"...
Reefius wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:49 am
I don't see the point of only emulating the sound of a 303 without also emulating the behaviour of the controls. A 303 is the whole package, that's what makes it so special. To me those 'improvements' as IL calls them are actually design flaws.

People don't want an 'improved' emulation, they want something as close as possible to the original.

The Roland Cloud 303 and ABL3 both take the crown here.
This may be true for anyone looking for a "real" 303 itb...
I never had my fingers on a real one and tbh I cannot understand what differences people want to hear between a real one vs emulations nor can I hear them...

All I can tell is my own experience with highly claimed emulations...
I tried a few of them including ABL 2 and 3, Phoscyon etc...
For me, I just could get rubbish out of ABL 2 and even more rubbish out of ABL 3...
It doesn´t interest me in any way how close it shall sound to an original claimed by self-appointed experts...
Phoscyon was already a 100 times better but needed many tweaks and alot of time to make it sound right for my taste

Transistor Bass otoh was much more easy to handle... no matter what I do or did, it was immediately at least an acceptable result to my ears... and this is the only thing what matters to me... instant fun...

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
2306 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:21 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:07 am
I noticed that some patterns can not be replicated sonically on transistor bass due to the accent behaviour , and slides .
Altough Transistor's bass parameters are not scaled correctly , this should not be any reason why it can't replicate certain patterns
Now if image claims that they used a real 303 which they modelled transistor bass upon , it should be no problem to adapt abl3 patterns into transitor bass .
Sorry to ruin your "this modelled bla bla isn't accurate" -wars but:

Transistor Bass is a subtractive synthesizer in the style of the legendary Roland TB303™ Bassline synthesizer, but also enhances the concept by offering a number of tweaks not found in the original hardware, together with a guitar distortion, FX and a modern sequencer for fast editing of your bassline patterns.

From:
https://www.image-line.com/plugins/Transistor+Bass/

It sounds nice so I don't give a poo about how accurate some accent is. Btw I also REALLY like Alien303. Is it accurate? Hell no. Is it fun and usable? Hell yeah :tu:

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JunSev
KVRian
587 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:58 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:07 am
No Fl studio blind fanboyism allowed without real life examples .
Yeah, your resolution for being called out about your biased bashing trolling in the FL studio 20.5 thread after being called out because of your misbehavior viewtopic.php?f=7&t=527890, do you have an agenda that needs to find something wrong no matter what and trying to discredit against some developers and companies?:
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:11 am
Before anyone says I am just here to hate , I'm not ..
Because your attitude from the beginning of this thread doesn't suggest that o trying to troll or bash right?
Fl studio developers really don't care about addding new improvements to their existing plugins apart from vectorized guis and eye candy 
The sampler channel still uses the filters from version 3.0 :lol: , there has been no development whatsoever to improve these 
The new Flex plug suffers from the same thing , it's a collection of existing modules thrown together
The image line hq's is literally a 10 min walk from my home , ( they used to reside in one the richest neighboorhouds in belgium aka st-martens latem ) , now they are located in the city .
But that is of course of no relevance , fl studio has never been king of the hill ,seriously :lol:   
The only reason why kids talk about it it's because it's the most easily to grab cracked software , and once they are comfortable with the workflow ..they keep using it .
Once the kidos realise that studio one has a step sequencer (polyrytm and polymeter in one sequencer :tu: ) they wil just jump ship 
I still defend my point they have not been doing any serious dsp development since gol left , the days that I.L. housed talent like arguru and gol are long gone .
and the dsp side of f.l studio has not seen any major developments aside from a few effects and a (imho a mediocre ) 303 emu
And this is just a little portion after all your "FL studio is till..." you multiple times did mention and many of them were answered, and by the way just why? you come up with this personal histories/rumors/invention that no one is even asking you or is even in topic of a FL release if you're not a hater? and you wonder why I do think you're a hater?

That's the problem with you, you want to exaggerate things and have pretty bad conclusions of things even when sometimes you are not even interested in particular products or anything and that has been demonstrated.
Hypocrite.

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Halonmusic
KVRAF
2485 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:50 am

JunSev wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:58 am
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:07 am
No Fl studio blind fanboyism allowed without real life examples .
Yeah, your resolution for being called out about your biased bashing trolling in the FL studio 20.5 thread after being called out because of your misbehavior viewtopic.php?f=7&t=527890, do you have an agenda that needs to find something wrong no matter what and trying to discredit against some developers and companies?:
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:11 am
Before anyone says I am just here to hate , I'm not ..
Because your attitude from the beginning of this thread doesn't suggest that o trying to troll or bash right?
Fl studio developers really don't care about addding new improvements to their existing plugins apart from vectorized guis and eye candy 
The sampler channel still uses the filters from version 3.0 :lol: , there has been no development whatsoever to improve these 
The new Flex plug suffers from the same thing , it's a collection of existing modules thrown together
The image line hq's is literally a 10 min walk from my home , ( they used to reside in one the richest neighboorhouds in belgium aka st-martens latem ) , now they are located in the city .
But that is of course of no relevance , fl studio has never been king of the hill ,seriously :lol:   
The only reason why kids talk about it it's because it's the most easily to grab cracked software , and once they are comfortable with the workflow ..they keep using it .
Once the kidos realise that studio one has a step sequencer (polyrytm and polymeter in one sequencer :tu: ) they wil just jump ship 
I still defend my point they have not been doing any serious dsp development since gol left , the days that I.L. housed talent like arguru and gol are long gone .
and the dsp side of f.l studio has not seen any major developments aside from a few effects and a (imho a mediocre ) 303 emu
And this is just a little portion after all your "FL studio is till..." you multiple times did mention and many of them were answered, and by the way just why? you come up with this personal histories/rumors/invention that no one is even asking you or is even in topic of a FL release if you're not a hater? and you wonder why I do think you're a hater?

That's the problem with you, you want to exaggerate things and have pretty bad conclusions of things even when sometimes you are not even interested in particular products or anything and that has been demonstrated.
Hypocrite.
This.
Don't be a Sheep. :borg: | Opinions matters :evil:

User avatar
Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
2306 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:01 pm

Image-Line wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:10 am
and complained Transistor Bass was nothing like another emulation.
Found the reason why I thought you'd speak about TB as an emulation :hihi:

Stefken
KVRian
1351 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: ABL3 versus Image line transistor bass ( examples )

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:17 pm

There are some nice emulations around but as a total experience I think the Roland TB-303 vst is the best. The sequencer is pretty neat and actually better than the hardware imo.

That Alien303 sounds nice though on itself. Nice app for 19 euro. :tu:
Transistor Bass sounds nice too.

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