I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8551 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:23 pm

fisherKing wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:28 pm
show me a picture-tube tv with a better screen quality to a current 4k tv; it's impossible. some things just get better; in general (and perhaps not always): tech gets better.
The wide-screen Sony CRTs that used to ship with Discreet/Autodesk Flame would easily wipe the floor with anything short of an OLED screen. They were so sensitive they required a different calibration for the Southern Hemisphere to counter the Earth's magnetic field. Hands-down the best picture quality I have ever seen. You have to remember that 4k is nothing to a CRT, it can run at 8k, 16k, whatever you want to throw at it. The limiting factor becomes your GPU, the screen res is virtually unlimited. I was running 2k on an SGI workstation in 1999. It was capable of much higher res but 2k was the practical limit for the 23" screen if you wanted to be able to read anything.
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fisherKing
KVRAF
1932 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:25 pm

BONES wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:23 pm
fisherKing wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:28 pm
show me a picture-tube tv with a better screen quality to a current 4k tv; it's impossible. some things just get better; in general (and perhaps not always): tech gets better.
The wide-screen Sony CRTs that used to ship with Discreet/Autodesk Flame would easily wipe the floor with anything short of an OLED screen. They were so sensitive they required a different calibration for the Southern Hemisphere to counter the Earth's magnetic field. Hands-down the best picture quality I have ever seen. You have to remember that 4k is nothing to a CRT, it can run at 8k, 16k, whatever you want to throw at it. The limiting factor becomes your GPU, the screen res is virtually unlimited. I was running 2k on an SGI workstation in 1999. It was capable of much higher res but 2k was the practical limit for the 23" screen if you wanted to be able to read anything.
"anything short of an OLED screen". got it.

EDIT: kinda an asshole remark (mine, above); but if we're talking state-of-the art, you'd have to compare it to the 8k screens LG & others have been showing. either way, i doubt anyone would go back to a consumer picture-tube tv from a current consumer 4K flatscreen...
always one plugin short of perfection...

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8551 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:54 pm

I think it might depend on price. I would love to have been able to afford one of those Sony monitors. The problem with CRTs is that the bigger they get, the bigger they get. An 84" CRT would be a 1.5m deep, at least. They cease to be practical above about 32", which is why we used to have rear projection in larger TVs before TFT panels.
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ENV1
KVRAF
2533 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:55 am

BONES wrote:You have to remember that 4k is nothing to a CRT, it can run at 8k, 16k, whatever you want to throw at it. The limiting factor becomes your GPU, the screen res is virtually unlimited.
This is absolutely positively untrue.

Since the scanning frequencies and the raster of a tube are finite factors, so is the ultimately achievable resolution (as in usable resolution) because even without taking the rate of the phosphor decay into account there would come a point where it would smear so much that you couldnt see anything but a blur anymore.

(That is why even the more high-end Trinitron tubes such as the G520 (i have 2 of them) had a maximum resolution of 2048x1536 (depending on whether the manufacturer would make it all available), and why it could do such a high res only at a relatively low refresh rate. (I think 640x480 can be as fast as 120Hz and the rest can run at least at 75/85Hz, (i dont have one attached right now so i cant reaffirm), but 2048x1536 is only available at 60Hz, plus the actual picture is noticably reduced in size as well because the res is that high, i.e. it doesnt fill the whole screen anymore.))


But dont take my word for it, the info is out there if you want to know more about it.

In the end it all comes down to smear, i.e. that is what ultimately limits a CRTs resolution.

chk071
KVRAF
21225 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:28 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:23 pm
fisherKing wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:28 pm
show me a picture-tube tv with a better screen quality to a current 4k tv; it's impossible. some things just get better; in general (and perhaps not always): tech gets better.
The wide-screen Sony CRTs that used to ship with Discreet/Autodesk Flame would easily wipe the floor with anything short of an OLED screen. They were so sensitive they required a different calibration for the Southern Hemisphere to counter the Earth's magnetic field. Hands-down the best picture quality I have ever seen. You have to remember that 4k is nothing to a CRT, it can run at 8k, 16k, whatever you want to throw at it. The limiting factor becomes your GPU, the screen res is virtually unlimited. I was running 2k on an SGI workstation in 1999. It was capable of much higher res but 2k was the practical limit for the 23" screen if you wanted to be able to read anything.
Your memory is surely flawed. There is no CRT which remotely compares to a good AMOLED screen. But then, try it out yourself, if you can get a hold of each. I'm sure you'll be surprised.

Even most IPS screens beat CRT nowadays. Maybe not in terms of the pureness of black, which is always an issue with background lighting.

Auplant
KVRist
291 posts since 21 Mar, 2015

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:37 am

can anyone impress me with big luscious analog style sounds from dune? A osc challenge with dune would be interesting

AnX
KVRAF
5066 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:43 am

im pretty sure they did a OSC with DuneCM/BE

chk071
KVRAF
21225 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:57 am


Auplant
KVRist
291 posts since 21 Mar, 2015

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:02 am

Well touché, thanks for link

v1o
KVRAF
1731 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:34 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:26 pm
Let's just say I don't run out and buy a new TV every time a new one is released. Same with my car - just because there is a newer model doesn't mean the one I have isn't every bit as good as it was when I bought it. I have also gone back to a more conventional mobile phone, after 10 years on smartphones, for pretty much exactly the reasons some people might prefer the original DUNE over any of the updates - most of what my smartphone does is stuff I don't give a shit about so I saw no reason to waste money on capabilities that I don't need or want when I could get everything I did want in a slider phone that cost US$75 brand new.
You’ll just come across like a hipster antiquarian when you use your phone in public.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

v1o
KVRAF
1731 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:48 pm

Actually I’ve read somewhere that CRTs are superior to LCDs.

LCD have poor black levels, the deep blacks they produce are more dark grey than pure black. LCDs also have limited colour spectrum compared to CRT.

CRTs have superior response times to both LCD and OLED.

CRTs have higher a contrast ratio. LCDs have limited peak brightness compared to a good CRT. Even those LCDs that claim to support HDR cannot produce anywhere near the 1000 nits minimum requirement for proper HDR implementation. A lot of them use hacks to support HDR.

OLED screens suffer from burn-in over time. It’s a limitation of the technology. You will never get a OLED tv that lasts for several decades like a CRT.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

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layzer
KVRAF
6577 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:57 pm

v1o wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:34 pm
BONES wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:26 pm
Let's just say I don't run out and buy a new TV every time a new one is released. Same with my car - just because there is a newer model doesn't mean the one I have isn't every bit as good as it was when I bought it. I have also gone back to a more conventional mobile phone, after 10 years on smartphones, for pretty much exactly the reasons some people might prefer the original DUNE over any of the updates - most of what my smartphone does is stuff I don't give a shit about so I saw no reason to waste money on capabilities that I don't need or want when I could get everything I did want in a slider phone that cost US$75 brand new.
You’ll just come across like a hipster antiquarian when you use your phone in public.
Smartphones are actually stupidphones...
they are too small to use most of their many functions comfortably without plugging in a keyboard, mouse and monitor.
but they are more bulky to carry around than older smaller flip phones.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8551 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:11 pm

v1o wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:34 pm
You’ll just come across like a hipster antiquarian when you use your phone in public.
Mostly I get admiring comments from people who wish they could uncomplicate their lives the way I have. And that's been the interesting aspect of it for me. My phone is a Nokia 8110. It looks like the classic slider phone from The Matrix but it is actually a modern 4G phone with all the mod cons like Google Assistant, Google Maps, email, weather and all that other stuff. The thing with it, though, is that the experience with those features on a 2.4" screen is terrible, so you don't use any of it unless you really, really have to. So instead of obsessively checking for new emails every half-an-hour or looking at the weather forecast six times a day, I only take the phone out when I actually need to use it for something. It's taken about a year to completely disconnect from all of that, it's only the last few months that I have stopped checking my email regularly, for example, but it is very liberating to realise one day that it has actually been several weeks since you even opened the email app and that you haven't checked the weather for even longer. It's like a chunk of your life that was spent doing pointless, useless tasks has been given back to you to use more wisely.

I can't imagine ever going back to one of those stupid glass slabs. The closest I am likely to get is a smartwatch with an eSIM, so I can use it without a phone, and I will likely take that step later this year.
Last edited by BONES on Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Behringer QX1002USB, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft Synth 2.0

ENV1
KVRAF
2533 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:51 am

v1o wrote: Actually I’ve read somewhere that CRTs are superior to LCDs.
It cant be generalized like that.

CRTs for instance always have problems with convergence. This is because it is practically impossible to have all 3 color rays going in 100% perfect sync with each other, i.e. the problem is practically unavoidable. (It is also not a 'linear' issue, i.e. convergence may be near perfect in the center area of the screen but totally suck in the corners.) The second major problem with CRTs is geometry, which is a lot better with flat tubes than it used to be with curved tubes, but even with perfectly flat tubes like some high-end Trinitrons it is still never perfect because the rays are drawing the picture 'freehand' if you will, i.e. unlike a TFT the pixel-positions are not static in one place. Thus a TFT with its fixed array of pixels/subpixels will always have the advantage here simply because it is impossible for convergence and geometry to be anything less than 100% perfect.

Aside from that TFTs are smaller, lighter, consume less power, and are flicker-free even at 60Hz. But they arent perfect either. Their disadvantages are that they usually always have problems with black (backlight technology in general and often ugly backlight bleed-through that can never be gotten rid of), and often with colors and greys as well. (Including banding.) Unlike CRTs they also have only 1 resolution where everything is 100% sharp, (so-called 'native-res', all other resolutions have to be interpolated whereas CRTs are always equally sharp at all resolutions), plus they are also generally a lot slower than CRTs, which may make them a suboptimal choice for applications such as gaming and fast video scenes. (Of course there are many TFTs that are perfectly fine for gaming and movies, the point is that this is never an issue with a CRT, i.e. its one of their advantages.)

So the upshot is that neither is perfect. Each has advantages the other doesnt have, so the only perfect solution would be a device that incorporates the good aspects of both. (Like a CRT with the footprint/convergence/geometry of a TFT.) Maybe the OLEDs will get there one day, (speed and all), they certainly are the most promising at this point.

HunterKiller
KVRAF
2064 posts since 10 Mar, 2006

Re: I love Synapse Audio Dune 1 VST!!

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:08 am

layzer wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:57 pm
v1o wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:34 pm
BONES wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:26 pm
Let's just say I don't run out and buy a new TV every time a new one is released. Same with my car - just because there is a newer model doesn't mean the one I have isn't every bit as good as it was when I bought it. I have also gone back to a more conventional mobile phone, after 10 years on smartphones, for pretty much exactly the reasons some people might prefer the original DUNE over any of the updates - most of what my smartphone does is stuff I don't give a shit about so I saw no reason to waste money on capabilities that I don't need or want when I could get everything I did want in a slider phone that cost US$75 brand new.
You’ll just come across like a hipster antiquarian when you use your phone in public.
Smartphones are actually stupidphones...
they are too small to use most of their many functions comfortably without plugging in a keyboard, mouse and monitor.
but they are more bulky to carry around than older smaller flip phones.
Someone really needs to preserve your blood and cerebrospinal fluid, so they can mix them up and inject them into the world population. You are it MR. It's always been you....
You are the anti-dote to post-modernism and all evil in the universe.
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