Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
dreamkeeper
KVRian
852 posts since 24 Jan, 2006 from Universe #5346198720

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:17 pm

Oh, btw. re: envelope "pics":
Massive X Team wrote:This will be addd in the future. We know how horrible this is and apologize for the current behaviour.
https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... 0000792338

There's many more official statements in the feedback area...
The hole is deeper than the hum of its farts

stearine
KVRist
104 posts since 6 Jun, 2019

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:48 pm

dreamkeeper wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:17 pm
Oh, btw. re: envelope "pics":
Massive X Team wrote:This will be addd in the future. We know how horrible this is and apologize for the current behaviour.

A few minutes earlier:
a user wrote:A comment on another thread leads me to think that the lack of visual feedback may be intentional. I'm starting to warm up to the idea. I'd be interested in hearing whether this is true and continue the discussion about visual-feedback.

Ain't I glad that got shot down quickly, before more people started buying into the horrible being a feature. :lol:

I'm happy to see NI being capable of listening and responding, and admitting fault.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
31050 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:51 pm

stearine wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:48 pm
I'm happy to see NI being capable of listening and responding, and admitting fault.
It's not so much that they are adding it now that people complained (although I'm sure they are acutely aware of the dissatisfaction), it's just that it was always on the road map, but not ready for release.

stearine
KVRist
104 posts since 6 Jun, 2019

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:56 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:51 pm
stearine wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:48 pm
I'm happy to see NI being capable of listening and responding, and admitting fault.
It's not that, it was always on the road map, just not ready for release.

I don't doubt that, but at least they're gracing the forums with their presence, which I don't take for granted! A simple, predictable line like that, as a response to a trivial inquiry/complaint, can go a long way. At the very least, it gives me the impression that they don't treat their customers as dirt, which may not earn them awards, but it's hell of a lot better than the next best thing; not being sure whether they'd treat me like dirt. :-D

Stefken
KVRian
1478 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:34 pm

:D

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EnGee
KVRAF
5390 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:11 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:24 am
EnGee wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:09 am

The "peak" is the same as "level"! What's the difference? Yes, there is no "shapes" in the original Massive but there is no "Morph" in Massive X and most importantly, you see a visual feedback what is going on, and you can change the GUI presentation from clicking the mouse on the visual dots and drag the slops, and ... there is a scroll mouse support ... and there are presets to save and load ... and ... Come on now!

If you prefer working with Massive X, then good for you :) but for me I really can't go back to inferior design and functions in a very important module like an envelope.
Yeah... the peak parameter seems redundant. There is a difference between peak and level. If you hold a note and adjust the peak control it does not affect the held note, only the following note. Level will reduce the level of held notes too. I assume there is some thinking behind that choice, but the purpose is not obvious to me.
I meant the difference between "peak" in the Attack section in Massive X and "level" in the Attack section of Massive (the original).
I'm undecided about the Envelopes in MX. As is they are hard to look at and understand the shape. My eyes cannot take a glance at the MX envelope and 'see' the shape. I have to study it for a few seconds.
Yes, this is what I mean. It is not easy to visualise the envelope modulation. Maybe it needs more time to get used to it but it definitely a step back from the original.
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Bitwig 3, Reaper 5 and some u-he synths (Ubuntu 18.04), Maschine 2.8/NI/Korg/other synths and instruments (Windows 10)

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15964 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:27 pm

dreamkeeper wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:08 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:25 pm

50% pulsewidth is a square wave. :) And yeah, LFO phase would be a nice parameter to have but we'll see if it happens eventually.
Regardless of whether I articulated it accurately, the simple shape I am looking for is not possible in the LFO or any other modulator in MX.

Then you lose Sync...
No. You have a set of 5 custom timings, you can switch between with modulation. Although it's not continuous modulation, it works well for pulse waves.
Speaking of Sync... MX doesn't have any triplet and dotted options for Sync timing. Also no 32nds
(right-)Click drag the numbers to set any time between 1/99 and 32/4.
Thanks... I understand now... Not at all straightforward, but it can at least work

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pixel85
KVRian
572 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:30 am

I don't get it. Why people need to visualise envelope? Is listening not enough anymore? It's a serious question.
don't use plugin/s in this topic! It has aliasing at -196dB and 60fps

Functional
KVRian
726 posts since 26 Oct, 2011

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:43 am

pixel85 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:30 am
I don't get it. Why people need to visualise envelope? Is listening not enough anymore? It's a serious question.
Visualization helps in general. Even if it's hard for any given individual to make an argument for it, it would be impossible to argue against that for example that most popular software EQ's will have a visual display for what they're doing and that's because most people prefer so if possible. Hell, same goes for filters these days, which are more trivial than lot of the EQ's.

In this case, it's nice to see quickly what is and how. Say for example I've designed a pad and I'm using it in a given project. Then I lay that project to rest for a few weeks as no progress is being made. Then I come back and decide that the pad doesn't have enough attack. If I have visual display of the envelopes, I can quickly see what's going on with them and for example, change the shape of a relevant envelope to logarithm if it happened to be exponent.

The way things are currently, I would have to manually go through the parameters to find what I can quickly change to ameliorate my issue. With visual feedback, I can quickly ignore irrelevant parameters.

chk071
KVRAF
21225 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:47 am

It's nice, but, it won't give you any feedback about the length of the different stages. Maybe in relation to other stages, but, not in relation to any time scale. Nonetheless, i think it's a helpful feature, and i'm glad that NI will implement it.

Again, though, why some think it's remotely a deal breaker is beyond me.

Functional
KVRian
726 posts since 26 Oct, 2011

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:59 am

chk071 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:47 am
It's nice, but, it won't give you any feedback about the length of the different stages. Maybe in relation to other stages, but, not in relation to any time scale. Nonetheless, i think it's a helpful feature, and i'm glad that NI will implement it.
Doesn't have to tell you anything in relation to a time scale (there are actually plenty of envelopes that are capable of gridlocking to a beat grid, it's somewhat useful in genres like "future bass" (yeah, I know, funny names) where they often create "wobbly chords" with envelopes rather than LFO's. Not that useful overall though.

But if it can tell you whenever there's nearly no attack or a lot of attack and whenever it's exponential, linear or logarithmic curve, that's useful information.
chk071 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:47 am
Again, though, why some think it's remotely a deal breaker is beyond me.
Agreed. To make such a big deal out of this, I'd say one probably should reconsider their capabilities if lack of this particular feature prevents them from using a great synth

chk071
KVRAF
21225 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:21 am

Functional wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:59 am
But if it can tell you whenever there's nearly no attack or a lot of attack and whenever it's exponential, linear or logarithmic curve, that's useful information.
Agreed.

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EnGee
KVRAF
5390 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:41 am

pixel85 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:30 am
I don't get it. Why people need to visualise envelope? Is listening not enough anymore? It's a serious question.
So why making an interface in the first place?! Just put sliders (one beside/under the other) and get done with it (something like the edit mode in Cubase)! You don't need anymore than that because listening is more than enough for you!
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Bitwig 3, Reaper 5 and some u-he synths (Ubuntu 18.04), Maschine 2.8/NI/Korg/other synths and instruments (Windows 10)

enCiphered
KVRist
342 posts since 13 Dec, 2016

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:56 am

EnGee wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:41 am
pixel85 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:30 am
I don't get it. Why people need to visualise envelope? Is listening not enough anymore? It's a serious question.
So why making an interface in the first place?! Just put sliders (one beside/under the other) and get done with it (something like the edit mode in Cubase)! You don't need anymore than that because listening is more than enough for you!
+1
Some people don't even make the effort to think before posting.

chk071
KVRAF
21225 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Massive X or Hive 2. Need an opinion.

Post Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:02 am

TBH, for me it's once again pretty concerning that people waste their time and energy with such minor things. In the meanwhile, people are making music and soundsets with this thing, and work with what is available in the synth, not bother about what is not. Everyone who wants to buy and pay for this synth can use the demo. Unless you got it for free with Komplete 12. Don't get it, to be honest.

I know someone who buys himself a iPhone, or a Macbook, and then spends the first days laying it on the table in front of him, and checking every corner, and every nuance of the surface, and when he finds something he doesn't like, he brings it back, and demands a refund. This sort of reminds me of him. Actually... thinking about it, it's even more severe. It's as if Apple promised to fix the edges which you don't like, and you're still complaining about them.

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