The Cloud and the Future of Plugins

[vurt]

in the cloud, there is no future.
in the cloud, all time exists at once.

[metaside]

I would buy a copy of Cubase for $10 a month and keep getting latest stability and security patches and updates. It's a good deal.

It doesn't sound that bad for a DAW, but the feeling changes when I think about all the plugins by different developers that I bought in the past...

[JunSev]

This would be a complete nightmare in the future if it were like that, All form of subscriptions or "only available with internet" is an abomination and people looking at subscription like the way for the future are trying to justify what is simply unjustifiable. Is absolutely disgusting.

Where is the critical and deeper way to see things? is some people in this generation so blind and so ignorant to accept this sort of model as a good future?. Just like "yeah is ok" to every forms of disgusting procedures methods from some companies just to make you dependant at the end paying and paying without just getting your product and your investment?

Open your eyes, you will not have products anymore and everything will be dependent on companies and you will not have the products you paid for; and some people really trying to justify subscription as something "normal", no is not normal and is not a good signal for the future, wake up.

And whoever who just invented the absolute wrong and bad idea that the software you buy is not yours... I don't know how in the world this has gone so far without being dismantled and called out about this big falsehood and exaggeration.

From here and now let me tell you something and please get this clear:

The Software You Buy Is Yours, Under Agreement You Respect The Terms And Conditions, Is Yours. No Subscriptions, No ********.

And many companies when you go to the download page for vsts and more it says form themselves:Download Your Product.

That's right because is your investment, you buy it, you got it. And of course is not that you can do whatever with it; that's why there is the agreement and terms, but at the end is your product (and of course taking in account depending from what company, terms and conditions you buy from).

[Forgotten]

I would buy a copy of Cubase for $10 a month and keep getting latest stability and security patches and updates. It's a good deal.

It doesn't sound that bad for a DAW, but the feeling changes when I think about all the plugins by different developers that I bought in the past...

If it was a cloud app though, you would only have access to it while you have a working internet connection.

I think perpetual license, subscription, and cloud-based application are 3 different things.

[tony10000]

That's right because is your investment, you buy it, you got it. And of course is not that you can do whatever with it; that's why there is the agreement and terms, but at the end is your product (and of course taking in account depending from what company, terms and conditions you buy from).

The idea that you actually "own" someone else's IP is only an illusion. You are a licensee, pure and simple. In many cases, you cannot legally transfer ownership, and even if you can, it is subject to their conditions (license transfer fee, NFR status to secondary licensee, etc.) I would love to see more open source plugins that are truly free and extensible, but that idea has not received much support from developers.

[JunSev]

Pay forever or lose your ability to make music? No thank you!

That is a bit hyperbolic.

I am sure that you will always be able to buy tools to make music if that is your preference. My thinking is that legacy software will be available for sale as well as software from small developers.

However, I believe that most of the high-end software will be subscription only in the coming years to support continued development (and that tends to be expensive). That is why it takes so long for developers to come out with new versions (examples Zebra 3, Synthmaster 3).

Subscriptions are becoming the norm anyway...as most of us pay for DAW and plugin upgrades every few years to get the latest version. The only difference is that you are not obligated to upgrade to keep using the previous version. Perhaps some hybrid of subscription with a rent-to-own component may become the norm, even though that model didn't work for Cakewalk.

I don't know if you are just trying to justify anything possible or you only have created this topic to support the idea of subscriptions and "only with Internet" possibility to use software ones paid for, but how you come to the conclusion to put the subscription as the "norm" or the way for all high-end softwares... this really puts me off.

However, I believe that most of the high-end software will be subscription only in the coming years to support continued development

Yeah sure, as long as there are people just accepting all sort of disgusting implementation on them like "yeah sure, is all right" it might happen of course.

Subscriptions are becoming the norm anyway

Yeah is becoming the norm for blind people that doesn't want to see what will happen if the future just accepting all of those procedures; Absolutely never will be for me and never will for other neither.

[JunSev]

That's right because is your investment, you buy it, you got it. And of course is not that you can do whatever with it; that's why there is the agreement and terms, but at the end is your product (and of course taking in account depending from what company, terms and conditions you buy from).

The idea that you actually "own" someone else's IP is only an illusion. You are a licensee, pure and simple. In many cases, you cannot legally transfer ownership, and even if you can, it is subject to their conditions (license transfer fee, NFR status to secondary licensee, etc.) I would love to see more open source plugins that are truly free and extensible, but that idea has not received much support from developers.

It is actually yours and you own it, again everything depending from the company you're buying, that's why many companies and developers says: download your product or your copy of certain software program. This is not an illusion, is a reality; you respect the terms and conditions and the software is yours although (again) you can't do just whatever you want with it. The same as a laptop, the same as an smartphone, the same as a tablet, the same as countless of examples with terms and conditions we have to respect but at the end the product we paid for is ours.

This argument about software not being ours is only beneficial from companies that want you dependent on them, so is better for them to make you think that at their own convenience.

[tony10000]

Pay forever or lose your ability to make music? No thank you!

That is a bit hyperbolic.

I am sure that you will always be able to buy tools to make music if that is your preference. My thinking is that legacy software will be available for sale as well as software from small developers.

However, I believe that most of the high-end software will be subscription only in the coming years to support continued development (and that tends to be expensive). That is why it takes so long for developers to come out with new versions (examples Zebra 3, Synthmaster 3).

Subscriptions are becoming the norm anyway...as most of us pay for DAW and plugin upgrades every few years to get the latest version. The only difference is that you are not obligated to upgrade to keep using the previous version. Perhaps some hybrid of subscription with a rent-to-own component may become the norm, even though that model didn't work for Cakewalk.

I don't know if you are just trying to justify anything possible or you only have created this topic to support the idea of subscriptions and "only with Internet" possibility to use software ones paid for, but how you come to the conclusion to put the subscription as the "norm" or the way for all high-end softwares... this really puts me off.

However, I believe that most of the high-end software will be subscription only in the coming years to support continued development

Yeah sure, as long as there are people just accepting all sort of disgusting implementation on them like "yeah sure, is all right" it might happen of course.

Subscriptions are becoming the norm anyway

Yeah is becoming the norm for blind people that doesn't want to see what will happen if the future just accepting all of those procedures; Absolutely never will be for me and never will for other neither.

I think that this is just reality. Piracy has become so rampant it is hard for developers to make a buck. The market is not as robust as it once was as users (like me) have all they need to make music and there isn't a large number of people to replace them.

Under a subscription model, a typical developer with a user base of 10,000 users can charge $10 a month and gross $1.2 million a year. Slate Digital is extracting $12.50-25 a month per user for their product range. That is not chump change. And I am sure more developers are going to notice. And if they can't make money "selling" products, they are either going to look for alternate monetization methods such as rent-to-own or subscriptions or close up shop and do something else.

[tony10000]

That's right because is your investment, you buy it, you got it. And of course is not that you can do whatever with it; that's why there is the agreement and terms, but at the end is your product (and of course taking in account depending from what company, terms and conditions you buy from).

The idea that you actually "own" someone else's IP is only an illusion. You are a licensee, pure and simple. In many cases, you cannot legally transfer ownership, and even if you can, it is subject to their conditions (license transfer fee, NFR status to secondary licensee, etc.) I would love to see more open source plugins that are truly free and extensible, but that idea has not received much support from developers.

It is actually yours and you own it, again everything depending from the company you're buying, that's why many companies and developers says: download your product or your copy of certain software program. This is not an illusion, is a reality; you respect the terms and conditions and the software is yours although (again) you can't do just whatever you want with it. The same as a laptop, the same as an smartphone, the same as a tablet, the same as countless of examples with terms and conditions we have to respect but at the end the product we paid for is ours.

This argument about software not being ours is only beneficial from companies that want you dependent on them, so is better for them to make you think that at their own convenience.

I think it would be useful if you would actually take the time to study software licensing law and to actually read copies of the EULAs of the software that you think you "own":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license

[JunSev]

Pay forever or lose your ability to make music? No thank you!

That is a bit hyperbolic.

I am sure that you will always be able to buy tools to make music if that is your preference. My thinking is that legacy software will be available for sale as well as software from small developers.

However, I believe that most of the high-end software will be subscription only in the coming years to support continued development (and that tends to be expensive). That is why it takes so long for developers to come out with new versions (examples Zebra 3, Synthmaster 3).

Subscriptions are becoming the norm anyway...as most of us pay for DAW and plugin upgrades every few years to get the latest version. The only difference is that you are not obligated to upgrade to keep using the previous version. Perhaps some hybrid of subscription with a rent-to-own component may become the norm, even though that model didn't work for Cakewalk.

I don't know if you are just trying to justify anything possible or you only have created this topic to support the idea of subscriptions and "only with Internet" possibility to use software ones paid for, but how you come to the conclusion to put the subscription as the "norm" or the way for all high-end softwares... this really puts me off.

However, I believe that most of the high-end software will be subscription only in the coming years to support continued development

Yeah sure, as long as there are people just accepting all sort of disgusting implementation on them like "yeah sure, is all right" it might happen of course.

Subscriptions are becoming the norm anyway

Yeah is becoming the norm for blind people that doesn't want to see what will happen if the future just accepting all of those procedures; Absolutely never will be for me and never will for other neither.

I think that this is just reality. Piracy has become so rampant it is hard for developers to make a buck. The market is not as robust as it once was as users (like me) have all they need to make music and there isn't a large number of people to replace them.

Under a subscription model, a typical developer with a user base of 10,000 users can charge $10 a month and gross $1.2 million a year. Slate Digital is extracting $12.50-25 a month per user for their product range. That is not chump change. And I am sure more developers are going to notice. And if they can't make money "selling" products, they are either going to look for alternate monetization methods such as rent-to-own or subscriptions or close up shop and do something else.

Yeah that's why I said it would work with those 10,000 very blind people accepting subscriptions and "only with Internet" procedures, and will only continue working (sadly) as long as those 10,000 or anyone supporting disgusting methods on them like that.

That's why people should have conscience and understanding about this abomination, because as long they continue accepting and supporting that the future will be terrible, with all respect to all.

I think it would be useful if you would actually take the time to study software licensing law and to actually read copies of the EULAs of the software that you think you "own":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license

I study the software license agreement and I respect the terms and conditions, and I also will continue downloading my products I paid for and will continue using my softwares and my licenses as always.

No subscriptions, no dependencies all time.

[tony10000]

There is nothing that says you have to subscribe to anything. There are plenty of free and "included with the DAW" plugins and cheap plugins that you can buy. However, I am thinking that more devs of high-end products will go subscription in the coming years.

[Halonmusic]

subscription for plugins, subscription for porn... same thing. theres alot of both
out there for free, but pay every month for cloud plugins if you think they make your music sound better.

This! Only stupid people pay for subscriptions.

[telecode]

subscription for plugins, subscription for porn... same thing. theres alot of both
out there for free, but pay every month for cloud plugins if you think they make your music sound better.

This! Only stupid people pay for subscriptions.

Really? I pay for Netflix because I don't want to pay my cable company $100 per month for 100 channels of which I only watch 5.

I pay Spotify because I can get immediate access to all the new releases of my favorite artists because a) some of them are pretty small time and the only way to get a release would be to go to a concert and b) of the bigger artists I like, there are no places to buy physical music anymore in my geographic area. I would have to order from Amazon and wait days.

There is Apple Music and Google Play but I find they suffer from same issues as my CD collection. I have releases.in there are "mine" but I haven't accessed in ages. It just sits there in my account because listening habits have changed. I dont keep listening old stuff I have over and over again. I listen to stuff as my interest demands it . One day it might be an old 70s artists, another day it might be discover a new artists catalog.

[Blaster]

What irritates me about Netflix or Spotify is that stuff just suddenly disappears when the license contract ends. No subscriptions for me.

[telecode]

What irritates me about Netflix or Spotify is that stuff just suddenly disappears when the license contract ends. No subscriptions for me.

Thats when you go and buy your own copy. If there was something you really really liked and wanted to experience over and over, you buy the BR or CD or LP.