Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6935 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:05 pm

Amram wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:30 pm
what is that ugly red?
The second filters knobs you mean? Yeah those kind of stand out for no good reason. I think they should just be the same as the other controls. It's not like your eyes should be drawn to the controls of Filter #2.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.

Neon Breath
KVRAF
3400 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:29 pm

Examigan wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:19 pm
Neon Breath wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:37 am
Is the resynthesis engine spectral or additive ?
Here's some info from the manual:

The following resynthesis options are available:
◦ Easy create patch: Resynthesis - Is the default mode which gives the best results
with most sounds.
◦ Easy create patch: Additive Resynthesis - Works like the previous one, but
removes all phase information and detuning from the sample. As a result you get
the cold sound known from additive synthesizers.
TIP: Later you can use the spectral editor to change the partials and to turn Icarus
into a complete additive synthesizer!
◦ Easy create patch: Resynthesis for noisy sounds - Works like the normal
resynthesis, but sometimes gives better results with very noisy sounds like flutes.
◦ Easy create patch: Granulator - Creates a patch which uses granular synthesis.
In granular synthesis a sample is divided into small 'grains' with a window function.
Use the OCT knob to control the density of the grains. Use the MORPH knob the
change the pitch of the grains. Change the Lfo1 SHAPE to a triangle for a forward
and backward playback. Change Lfo1 SPEED for a faster or slower playback of the
sound. When you set SPEED to 0 you can timefreeze the sample. You can use the
WAVE knob to move within the sound.
:tu: :D
__________________________________________________
http://redfog-drone.bandcamp.com
http://soundcloud.com/sleeping-on-lotus-ashes
__________________________________________________

SLiC
KVRAF
3878 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:15 pm

Stefken wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:52 am
I just had a quick play with it.
This gives you 4 lfo's without the need for tabbing (main controls would need to go on a ribbon on top).



icarus_test.jpg
(rightclick to see at 100%)
What would be amazing would be a GUI that adapts to the real estate available - it’s pretty annoying when you have a large HiDPI monitor with a tiny GUI that you have to tab around....why not have a small version with tabs, and a large version with everything exposed, best of both worlds.
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

chk071
KVRAF
21836 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm

Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:

User avatar
exmatproton
KVRAF
2521 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:31 pm

chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm
Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:
Bitmaps, i think. (Just like arturia and u-he)

User avatar
LeVzi
KVRAF
1999 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:32 pm

himalaya wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:25 am
I agree with wanting to replace the 3D knob design.
GUIs with 3D knobs are not helpful, as some may think. There is no reason to use them in software. Fake angles, knob shadows...serve no purpose. A nice, aesthetic look can be obtained with skeuomorphic 2D (top view) design which can be as clean and easy to read as a good flat skin.

Having said that, the 3D knob angle on this skin is tastefully done, not overstated, and I would have no issues using this GUI.
I 100% disagree with this, I find the flat GUI's horrible, and I avoid all synths that have them. I cannot use Ableton due to its GUI (and workflow) , the flat GUI is hard to follow and hard on the eye.

There is nothing to be gained or anything better or more functional by having a flat GUI, which is why I am pleased to see they are making an optional skin for this update, which is the way forward IMO. Give people the choice.
Forward ever, Backward never

chk071
KVRAF
21836 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:38 pm

exmatproton wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:31 pm
chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm
Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:
Bitmaps, i think. (Just like arturia and u-he)
Yeah, but, can't they add different versions for, say, 80%, 100%, 200% and 400%? That's how the others do it.

Stefken
KVRAF
1578 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:59 pm

chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:38 pm
exmatproton wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:31 pm
chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm
Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:
Bitmaps, i think. (Just like arturia and u-he)
Yeah, but, can't they add different versions for, say, 80%, 100%, 200% and 400%? That's how the others do it.
I read on the first page that the GUI can be viewed at 8 different sizes.
And yes, a bitmap solution can allow scaling. They are not in contradiction.

db3
KVRAF
2212 posts since 22 Aug, 2012

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:04 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:05 pm
Amram wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:30 pm
what is that ugly red?
The second filters knobs you mean? Yeah those kind of stand out for no good reason. I think they should just be the same as the other controls. It's not like your eyes should be drawn to the controls of Filter #2.
It represents the second filter being red in the shared graphic display. Currently the second filter is grey in Icarus with shared controls. I think I'd prefer a separate display for each filter with same colour theme — even if that meant them having the smaller display or sacrificing elsewhere.

SLiC
KVRAF
3878 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:05 am

chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm
Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:
If you have lots of tabs to make it fit when its small, you still have lots of tabs when its big and a totally unnecessary (undesirable) tabbed workflow!

If you can have a bigger GUI, why not have everything displayed and not hidden? (Bazzile did a skin like this).

Not just 'bigger', but more intelligent use of the space!
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

himalaya
KVRAF
5073 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:03 am

LeVzi wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:32 pm
himalaya wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:25 am
I agree with wanting to replace the 3D knob design.
GUIs with 3D knobs are not helpful, as some may think. There is no reason to use them in software. Fake angles, knob shadows...serve no purpose. A nice, aesthetic look can be obtained with skeuomorphic 2D (top view) design which can be as clean and easy to read as a good flat skin.

Having said that, the 3D knob angle on this skin is tastefully done, not overstated, and I would have no issues using this GUI.
I 100% disagree with this, I find the flat GUI's horrible, and I avoid all synths that have them. I cannot use Ableton due to its GUI (and workflow) , the flat GUI is hard to follow and hard on the eye.

There is nothing to be gained or anything better or more functional by having a flat GUI, which is why I am pleased to see they are making an optional skin for this update, which is the way forward IMO. Give people the choice.
I wonder what are you disagreeing with? I'm not advocating for this GUI skin to be flat, but to have 2D, top view knobs, rather than the angled 3D knobs (which as I mentioned, aren't that bad, there are worse examples of angled 3D designs). I'm advocating for all plugins to drop the needless angled 3D design. They serve no purpose and only affect readability and can mess with people's heads.

I like skeuomorphic 2D designs as well as flat, modern designs, so I'm all for choice as well, but angled 3D knobs serve no purpose whatsoever.

For example, if I have a synth loaded and its GUI is showing 3D knob angles pointing up, but then decide to load an effect plugin and it has 3D knobs angled down, or sideways, my head starts to go ballistic at the silly discrepancy of what my eyes are seeing. I'm looking at the screen from a bird's eye view, but two plugins are showing me completely different 3D angles! Why would you find this useful in anyway? Inspiring? To be looking at some Frankenstein collage of fake angles on a computer screen?

Each camp, the skeuomprhic 2D/3D and the 'flat' approach have examples of great and bad designs, but to say simply that 'a flat design' is hard to read (as if to say that they are all hard to read) is very strange and does not tally up with my experience. I find the opposite. A good flat design focusses on what is needed without all the 'fluff' of skeuomorphic designs and can be much easier to read. However, this bare-bones approach of some flat designs can be boring, and uninspiring. That's why I enjoy skeuomorphic designs, as they can be inspiring to look at, they can have 'mojo', which is important if I'm sitting with a plugin 24/7. But...angled 3D designs are just aggravating for practical and usability reasons.

In the Korg Gadget app, we have the most unexplainable 3D design ever, where two synths sit side by side, and each has 3D knobs pointing in the opposite directions!? Madness! But the same situation can arise in my DAW project with two plugins loaded at the same time, all showing different 3D angles! This kind of design has to stop. But we still see new synths being released with 3D knobs set at an angle....
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

chk071
KVRAF
21836 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:10 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:05 am
chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm
Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:
If you have lots of tabs to make it fit when its small, you still have lots of tabs when its big and a totally unnecessary (undesirable) tabbed workflow!

If you can have a bigger GUI, why not have everything displayed and not hidden? (Bazzile did a skin like this).

Not just 'bigger', but more intelligent use of the space!
Would you really want a GUI which looks like this though?

https://aliens-project.de/blog/wp-conte ... 012-06.jpg

IMO, tabs are always a compromise. If you have a synth with 6 envelopes, 6 LFO's, and a mod matrix with 40 slots, it is pretty insane to put all that in a GUI without tabbing.

User avatar
exmatproton
KVRAF
2521 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:42 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:10 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:05 am
chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm
Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:
If you have lots of tabs to make it fit when its small, you still have lots of tabs when its big and a totally unnecessary (undesirable) tabbed workflow!

If you can have a bigger GUI, why not have everything displayed and not hidden? (Bazzile did a skin like this).

Not just 'bigger', but more intelligent use of the space!
Would you really want a GUI which looks like this though?

https://aliens-project.de/blog/wp-conte ... 012-06.jpg

IMO, tabs are always a compromise. If you have a synth with 6 envelopes, 6 LFO's, and a mod matrix with 40 slots, it is pretty insane to put all that in a GUI without tabbing.
totally agree. TABs can be VERY handy for quick editing, which sounds weird. But a cluttered UI is worse compared to a nice clean UI with a couple of tabs (IMHO)

Stefken
KVRAF
1578 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:54 am

himalaya wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:03 am
I'm not advocating for this GUI skin to be flat, but to have 2D, top view knobs, rather than the angled 3D knobs
I think I am the one who started about the flat knobs.
I just like to point out that my post was written pretty fast and my gripe is with the knobs being angled and distorted.
So I meant flatter , rather than completely flat. :clown:

I actually prefer 2D top view knobs over completely flat stuff.
The current angled knobs with the abundance of indicators around it, are not the best design choice imo.

SLiC
KVRAF
3878 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:26 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:10 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:05 am
chk071 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm
Why not just... have a resizable GUI? :ud:
If you have lots of tabs to make it fit when its small, you still have lots of tabs when its big and a totally unnecessary (undesirable) tabbed workflow!

If you can have a bigger GUI, why not have everything displayed and not hidden? (Bazzile did a skin like this).

Not just 'bigger', but more intelligent use of the space!
Would you really want a GUI which looks like this though?

https://aliens-project.de/blog/wp-conte ... 012-06.jpg

IMO, tabs are always a compromise. If you have a synth with 6 envelopes, 6 LFO's, and a mod matrix with 40 slots, it is pretty insane to put all that in a GUI without tabbing.
Thats almost exactly what my hardware modular looks like (other than its mainly silver/eurorack) :D

My point is realy advocating 'alternative layouts' rather than 'the same but bigger' - I have 32inch 4K, thats a lot of real estate...I want to be able to read stuff, but also I don't just want stuff bigger, I want more 'revealed' to see and use. Some synths (like say Pigments) do a great job at letting you 'see' what is going on everywhere at all time, removing tabs just makes workflow a little faster. Nice to have, not essential...Bitwig (for example) have alternative layouts depending what screen you are on (tablet etc) and you can switch layouts easily- I would just like to see more of this.
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

Return to “Instruments”