TB-303 Emulators

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
4370 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Post Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:05 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:18 am
I'd argue the downside of having a built-in distortion is that most people would be inclined to use it regularly. Not a problem you say? Well, then you've got a bunch of people running the act same 303 software through the exact same distortion. I mean yeah, you could turn it off and use something else, but people are generally lazy when there's a convenient option already right in front of their face. Not having built-in distortion means you're probably going to be processing your ABL 3 through a different plugin (or maybe even hardware stompbox) than I will because you're going to have to reach for something to do the job. Better to have a bunch of people do their own things differently and have their own sounds.

...

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KVRAF
4370 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Post Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:09 am

ENV1 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:02 am
codec_spurt wrote:

I know what you mean.

Cheat codes. Very esoteric.

I forget now.

There was some kind of secret hand shake kind of ting...

It was unbelievable. But there it was. Kinky! *
Its a 4-digit random password (or passcode rather) that you have to enter when you want to play the plugin with normal pianoroll MIDI. The problem, beside the fact that this was a totally unnecessary thing to implement in the first place, is that it doesnt even really work in any usable manner, because for instance in REAPER (but not only there) a new passcode is requested everytime you start/stop the transport, which of course makes it doubly infuriating for those who would really like to use the plugin for its good sound but just cant put up with the way the internal sequencer has to be programmed. (You know, hold this button so you can operate that button in order to perform that action etc.)

Really didnt have to do that, but his philosophy was (is) that when you use a 303 you should strictly use the internal sequencer, and this passwordy-naggery was sorta meant to turn people off of using pianoroll MIDI, which he somehow considered 'wrong'. Question is only why he added the option at all then, but i guess we will never know.

Very unfortunate all this because the sound IS good.
Yeah, the sound was great.

The rest was just weird.

The thing was though, that you just couldn't trigger it via the midi lane, that you had to go through that weird process. I don't think anyone would have minded otherwise.

KVRAF
2787 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Post Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:22 am

codec_spurt wrote:
The thing was though, that you just couldn't trigger it via the midi lane, that you had to go through that weird process. I don't think anyone would have minded otherwise.
There is no doubt in my mind that Venom would be a highly esteemed plugin today, had it not been for the programming concept and this extremely silly and unnecessary passcode thing.

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KVRAF
2538 posts since 4 Sep, 2006 from 127.0.0.1

Post Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:24 am

ENV1 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:02 am
Really didnt have to do that, but his philosophy was (is) that when you use a 303 you should strictly use the internal sequencer, and this passwordy-naggery was sorta meant to turn people off of using pianoroll MIDI, which he somehow considered 'wrong'. Question is only why he added the option at all then, but i guess we will never know.
here's why it has midiplay mode: viewtopic.php?p=5746081#p5746081

now, 2019, when 303 clones are discussed and talked about, i see more and more people appreciating the sequencer as one of the key components of the 303 "experience", the situation was not so back in 2013-ish, where i had to constantly explain and argue that the sequencer is very important
so, maybe i helped spread this word a bit (i hope so), i feel good about the current situation in any case
It doesn't matter how it sounds..
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!

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KVRAF
4818 posts since 6 May, 2002

Post Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:30 pm

antto wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:24 am
now, 2019, when 303 clones are discussed and talked about, i see more and more people appreciating the sequencer as one of the key components of the 303 "experience", the situation was not so back in 2013-ish, where i had to constantly explain and argue that the sequencer is very important
so, maybe i helped spread this word a bit (i hope so), i feel good about the current situation in any case
The good thing about an authentic 1:1 UI + sequencer is you could map it to a MIDI controller and use like the hardware. A 64bit Venom sequencer might be a good idea.
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Suspended
4029 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:28 pm

Stefken wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:22 am
Yes, the fact that abl has no distortion is a limiting factor. Also, it's about more than the sound for me but the total experience. The Roland Cloud has the experience, good sound, distortion.
I own Phoscyon but find it a bit tame.
ABl 3 has distortion ( sine shaper ) , the parameters are just not exposed on the gui but rather through the host plugin parameters .
For some reason the distorion modes have been disabled in 3.2.1.

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KVRAF
2787 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:56 am

antto wrote: now, 2019, when 303 clones are discussed and talked about, i see more and more people appreciating the sequencer as one of the key components of the 303 "experience", the situation was not so back in 2013-ish, where i had to constantly explain and argue that the sequencer is very important
so, maybe i helped spread this word a bit (i hope so), i feel good about the current situation in any case
The 303s sequencer is great and IMO any plugin that calls itself a 303 emulation must have it or it cant be called a complete 303 emulation.

In other words the problem is not the sequencer itself. (And yes, i generally agree that it should always be the preferred choice.) Its simply the way Venom requires it to be programmed, (considering that it is software and not a real physical hardware unit), i.e. the fact that you cant do it with the mouse alone since certain buttons have to be held in order for other buttons/functions to become operable. Im sure that if it werent for that little but high-impact detail, and the unit could be programmed like the 2009 beta that had the second oscillator and knobs for Accent Decay and Accent Volume etcetera, you probably wouldnt have heard any complaints from anybody at all because the sound is definitely there, i.e. everyone would have been nothing but happy.

(And of course the second mistake was to implement a passcode requirement on the MIDI input. IMO that was a real silly thing to do. Considering how useless it ultimately is (since it requires a new code to be entered on every start/stop of the transport), im sure this was the number one infuriating aspect for many if not most, because you cant help but thinking 'why does he care how other people use the plugin, its not like it makes a difference to him whether someone uses the sequencer or the pianoroll'. Because in the end the only thing that counts is whether an instrument is giving you any useful sounds, not the method of how you got it to make them, i guess we can all agree on that. But then we went over all of this before so i will just leave it at that. The point, at any rate, is that its not the sequencer thats the problem, its the way Venom requires it to be operated considering that its software and not a real physical hardware unit where there is no other choice than to do it the way Roland did.)

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KVRAF
11053 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:54 am

Sounds like the ideal solution would be an internal sequencer plus the ability to trigger notes with MIDI from the DAW. Is there anything that does that?

KVRist
238 posts since 12 Jan, 2005 from Germany

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:58 am

I don't unterstand why we are discussin the strange behaviour of venom when a close to perfect solution actually exists.. 8)

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KVRian
961 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:41 am

Exactly. Want the best 303 emulation ? Get ABL3. It's really that simple.
More BPM please

KVRAF
8369 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:50 am

dionenoid wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:41 am
Exactly. Want the best 303 emulation ? Get ABL3. It's really that simple.
I have the Roland Cloud sub and did a compare of ABL 3.2.1 and the Roland...ABL sounded better every time. Particularly the filter. The Roland disappears at high resonance whereas the ABL is chunky and thick. ABL was also just punchier overall with more bottom.

ABL is just terrific.

AnX
KVRAF
9216 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:05 am

i think ppl who claim abl3 is inferior to any 303 emu, cleary have no real life experience of a tb 303

KVRAF
6400 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:34 am

I prefer? Maybe Phoscyon if it has distprtion built in. If anybody wanna sell it pm me please :D
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KVRist
238 posts since 12 Jan, 2005 from Germany

Post Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:30 am

There was a time, when Phoscyon just came out, I prefered it over ABL, but ABL 2 and 3 were ha...mm.. (may I say it in this context 8) ) game changers.

Though I have to admit: As I tried to recreate an old TB recording session with ABL I had a hard time. Analog is just...so...analog. I really thought about buying a RE-303.

KVRAF
2032 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Post Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:34 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:50 am
dionenoid wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:41 am
Exactly. Want the best 303 emulation ? Get ABL3. It's really that simple.
I have the Roland Cloud sub and did a compare of ABL 3.2.1 and the Roland...ABL sounded better every time. Particularly the filter.
That's is highly subjective of course.
Correct me if I'm wrong:
* ABL has no separate banks for sounds and patterns
* ABL has a lot less parameters exposed (I always open up the right hand panel on the TB-303 and e.g. changing drive type can immediately give a totally different sound)


* I really like the graphic sequencer in TB-303, aspecially the way you can see the glides which are a important aspect of the TB 303 experience for me
* The random generate of the sequencer in TB-303 works really well
* The sound in TB-303 sounds pretty acid to me. Pretty sure that Roland nailed it nicely. But TB 303 is more an experience than just a sound source for me (as has been pointed cfr infra also).

I can get a sound/sequence that I like very fast in TB-303.
In ABL it's more a chore for me.

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