Native Instruments Layoffs?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRian
1110 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Post Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:50 pm

codec_spurt wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:07 pm
Trent has that kind of don't mess with me I'm a crazy ex-goth thing going on, and that's probably true to form as well.
FWIW.. I was in the goth crowd in the 90s. The goth community was anything but violent. it was just people that liked books and listening to music that was different than pop and rocker music.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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digitalboytn
KVRian
1461 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:15 pm

codec_spurt wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:07 pm

Bring back Kore 2.

:hihi:
:tu:

There's nothing like a little wishful thinking :wink:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

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LeVzi
KVRAF
1999 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:47 pm

v1o wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:05 am
LeVzi wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:20 am
NI are going down the toilet imo, how the hell do you even get support from them anymore ? And they are laying people off. ffs.
Go back a few pages. NI support still is very good according to a poster who dealt with them recently.
Well its a lie as there is no way to actually contact them.
Forward ever, Backward never

BeeDog
KVRist
268 posts since 31 Jan, 2018

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:47 pm

LeVzi wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:47 pm
v1o wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:05 am
LeVzi wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:20 am
NI are going down the toilet imo, how the hell do you even get support from them anymore ? And they are laying people off. ffs.
Go back a few pages. NI support still is very good according to a poster who dealt with them recently.
Well its a lie as there is no way to actually contact them.
There is (through a support ticket), though it's unnecessarily convoluted to find it:
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/requests/new

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LeVzi
KVRAF
1999 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:01 pm

BeeDog wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:47 pm
LeVzi wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:47 pm
v1o wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:05 am
LeVzi wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:20 am
NI are going down the toilet imo, how the hell do you even get support from them anymore ? And they are laying people off. ffs.
Go back a few pages. NI support still is very good according to a poster who dealt with them recently.
Well its a lie as there is no way to actually contact them.
There is (through a support ticket), though it's unnecessarily convoluted to find it:
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/requests/new
I don't know where that was hidden, but I couldn't find it, but thank you.

Even the options don't include software, but registration is close enough.
Forward ever, Backward never

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5165 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:51 am

robotmonkey wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:06 am
Moving everything over to subscription model is the only thing that can save them now.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5165 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:56 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:14 am
$59 Million Investment = a lot of new people suddenly demanding input and results...products being launched half balked to meet unrealistic revenue 'targets' agreed to placate investors....companies run by spreadsheets not talent, passion and imagination.
It’s not like people didn’t predict this, from day one of the investor deal, after DECADES of seeing the same damn thing happen to every other company that got outside investors. I said it way back when. The same thing is happening to Propellerhead and every other company that makes deals with “outside investors”. VULTURE Capitalism.

WHY do companies always fall for this shit?
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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masterhiggins
KVRAF
2126 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:06 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:56 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:14 am
$59 Million Investment = a lot of new people suddenly demanding input and results...products being launched half balked to meet unrealistic revenue 'targets' agreed to placate investors....companies run by spreadsheets not talent, passion and imagination.
It’s not like people didn’t predict this, from day one of the investor deal, after DECADES of seeing the same damn thing happen to every other company that got outside investors. I said it way back when. The same thing is happening to Propellerhead and every other company that makes deals with “outside investors”. VULTURE Capitalism.

WHY do companies always fall for this shit?
They did it to themselves. They tried to be everything at once, and in the case one of those things happened to be a raging dumpster fire.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5165 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:09 am

pixel85 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:07 am
It took me so long to realize that we are talking about Native Instruments Massive X layoffs. X because every '100% trusted' insider source like Dirk or Uli gave quite different numbers :)
So maybe it's a marketing strategy for Massive X? :wink:

Ps. so many already see collapse of NI because of layoffs. But do you know those people? Do you think that all of them were their best programmers and engineers? What if most of those positions were administrative/office/QA? I don't know anyone working for NI but from my experience not every employee in IT/Tech/etc. is great or worth to be kept. I know examples where proportion between two employees and their 'work force' is like 300:1). We don't know those people so reviews and complaining on Glassdoor doesn't really tell us that much as it may seems. So many possibilities...
This topic require tons of salt :wink:
This is the second or third time someone here has blamed the employees, in under ten pages of comments I’ve read so far. Have you never worked in corporate? Never had your company bought out or controlled by “investors”?

After my experiences in corporate and government, with evil HR departments and Unions who were in the pockets of said HR departments... I am easily willing to side with the former employees (unless said employees were kicked out for sexism or some other socially backward behavior). When it comes to vulture capitalism, “dead weight” is any employee that isn’t directly causing money to flow into the investor’s bank accounts. Product be damned. Customers be damned. Employees be damned. Once you take a deal with these people, your products, employees, and customers are inevitably screwed. The high level CEOs keep theirs, while handing the bulk of the value to those “investors”, and then they retire.

It’s appalling how many people are willing to automatically presume “the employees must have deserved to lose their jobs”.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5165 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:21 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:59 pm
pixel85 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:19 pm
EvilDragon wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:04 pm
pixel85 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:48 pm
EvilDragon wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:31 am
pixel85 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:07 am
What if most of those positions were administrative/office/QA?
Nice what if but it's just that, a what if. The reality is something else.
Everything what we have here is "what if" and speculations. Whatever is the the "reality" nobody knows here.
Weeeellll.... ;)
Ok you may be the exception here but you didn't wrote official statement and I'm pretty sure that you don't want to play open cards sharing everything you know about NI and their employees ;)
Ps. It would kill all fun here if you would do this ;) These days speculations are the new 'facts' so let's keep it this way ;)
Right! But, it's not "all" speculation. We have outward evidence of mismanagement at a high level and we have testimonials of laid off employees. Sure, that's SLOP data, but it's not the same thing as pure speculation. It can't all be dismissed by a wave of the hand and a claim of "you're aren't there so you don't know." The fact is, we can make reasonable inferences that will be more right than wrong. Here, I'll demonstrate.

The weather in CA tomorrow and throughout the rest of the week will be sunny and warm with a cumulative snowfall for the week of zero inches.

NI is a privately held company, I'm not sure what "facts" people expect? I'm also not sure why people think that "we" shouldn't extrapolate available data and make some effort to predict what's happening? Such extrapolation can have value to us as consumers that is independent of "facts." Extrapolating expectations about Kore probably helped some people avoid investing in a sinking ship. We should continue to do that and if NI doesn't like those sorts of public discussions then it's completely in their purview to be more transparent about their actions.

I expect companies to want to protect their interests and, having some experience with evaluating SLOP data, I expect that there is actually more truth than people want to admit in the Glassdoor summaries. Certainly I believe those statements more than I believe the NI responses. So yes, I think that NI is poorly managed, has no vision in their roadmap, and allows marketing to run amok, among other things. Is that speculation? Yes, it most certainly is, but it's not completely blind, that's speculation based on reading a large number of reviews on Glassdoor, reading the NI responses, and the outward evidence of their products and services over a decade.

The point here is that if you don't like these kinds of conversations, then you're probably just going to be disappointed. Get over it, you aren't going to stop them by asserting that speculation!=fact. Speculation isn't just wild ass guessing, it's what happens when people put some effort into understanding the available data and predicting some eventual outcome. These predictions not always going to be right, and they're not all of equal value, however, they are not useless either. That they may prove to be wrong is immaterial, what has value to "us" is that we try to make the best sense of what's going on to make good decisions for ourselves.
:tu: Excellent post.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

jackmazzotti
KVRist
323 posts since 18 Dec, 2006

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:28 am

If they go subscription they are doomed as far as I am concerned. What about all those 3rd party Kontakt libraries? I cannot imagine them being happy with subscription model.
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Forgotten
KVRAF
4285 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:33 am

Is it me, or does this thread just keep going in circles repeating the same discussions?

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5165 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:13 pm

JunSev wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:18 am
Disgusting subscriptions models, I hate all of them... As long as people keep accepting those procedures in all areas everything will be worse, a sad world where the individual is completely dependent of services and not even the product ones is paid will be our possession anymore.

People need to wake up and be aware about those very bad practices, hope NI doesn't go the same road and some blind people just says "ok, is alright I'll pay and support whatever it comes", unbelievable...

With absolute respect.
Well, this is just the “invisible hand” of the “free market”, doing what “consumers demand”... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5165 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:15 pm

Loudness_Contour wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:33 am
JunSev wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:18 am
Disgusting subscriptions models, I hate all of them... As long as people keep accepting those procedures in all areas everything will be worse, a sad world where the individual is completely dependent of services and not even the product ones is paid will be our possession anymore.

People need to wake up and be aware about those very bad practices, hope NI doesn't go the same road and some blind people just says "ok, is alright I'll pay and support whatever it comes", unbelievable...

With absolute respect.
Couldn't agree more. Adobe lost me forever as a customer after moving to a subscription service, and same thing will happen with NI IF they make a similar move.
Same here on both counts.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5165 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Native Instruments Layoffs?

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:19 pm

Spencer Maddox wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:53 am
Am I the only One who doesn’t hate subscription that much as long as it’s done reasonably?
Corporations don’t WANT to do it in a “reasonable” way. The whole point of subscription models is to maximize profits, minimize investment, and squeeze more money out of a saturated market of consumers, in a less consumer-monitored manner. This is just one of many signs of economic and systemic collapse caused by end-stage laissez-faire capitalism.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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