Catalina and plugins

[Forgotten]

As a developer I was curious what Apple would break with this update.

The short answer:
Stay away from it unless you really need it.

To be honest I don’t know that’s applicable to everyone - I upgraded and had zero issues. I think the potential for issues is mostly where older software is concerned.

[fmr]

To be fair, Apple have been warning people for at least two years that 32bit apps were going to stop working. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Did you "actually" read Markus post? It isn't just 32-bit "apps" - even a 64-bit installer that has some 32-bit portion of code will not work.

[Forgotten]

To be fair, Apple have been warning people for at least two years that 32bit apps were going to stop working. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Did you "actually" read Markus post? It isn't just 32-bit "apps" - even a 64-bit installer that has some 32-bit portion of code will not work.

Well regardless of whether it is apps or installers, 32-bit code won’t work and that was communicated over 2 years ago.

[CasualHobbyist]

Who can afford Mac computers, and not afford $99/year for developing software though?

Apart from that, everyone is free to come to Windows, and not pay anything for developing software anyway.

I agree that if someone has the hard money to go around spending on Apple products, a deluxe and luxury brand, they most likely can pay the 99$ whole thing a year. Is different if users of the app want to use it on their computers but that's besides the point.

As for the second point. Well, you need to pay over a 100$ to develop on Windows (more specifically, to acquire a W10 license). Is not a free OS by any means, Microsoft isn't running a charity.

But assuming you can get over that hurdle (and ignoring that over half the world most likely runs pirated versions of Windows anyway). You're correct that you don't have to pay anything to develop software, so perhaps in a way everyone is indeed "free" to use it as you pointed out

@general Don't have much to say, albeit the fact that notarization can be bypassed makes me wonder how useful this really was going to be anyway

[fmr]

To be fair, Apple have been warning people for at least two years that 32bit apps were going to stop working. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Did you "actually" read Markus post? It isn't just 32-bit "apps" - even a 64-bit installer that has some 32-bit portion of code will not work.

Well regardless of whether it is apps or installers, 32-bit code won’t work and that was communicated over 2 years ago.

And your point is...? There is a world outside Apple, you now? And for the vast majority of developers (I'd risk ALL of them), macOS is not the main platform, and it's share is shrinking. Understandably, developers had other things to care about.

The vast majority of developers warned their users to WAIT. They have as much right to "warn" as Apple has the right to choose not to support 32-bit. They even have the right to decide to not develop for macOS anymore. If the users are in a hurry to jump on the "latest and greatest" macOS, they will have to put aside everything that doesn't work. Or... WAIT. As simple as that.

[fmr]

As for the second point. Well, you need to pay over a 100$ to develop on Windows (more specifically, to acquire a W10 license). Is not a free OS by any means, Microsoft isn't running a charity.

WHAT?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

am away, but here's some of the plugins i'm using in logic X (10.4.7); all working in catalina:
fabfilter, valhalladsp; hive, zebra, spire, sylenth1. massive x, cypher2, flow motion. tdr limiter. izotope nektar2, ozone 9. aparillo. sublab. shaperbox2.

all my projects open (so far), work. will add to the plugin list when i am back at the studio.

Great, but did you just plaster Catalina on top of an already working installation, or did you install all the plugins fresh in Catalina?

"plaster on top"? i upgraded my OS, as i do every year (unless i get a new mac); so yes, everything migrated to the new OS without issue, and works. isn't that, ultimately, the point? to have a working system?

Plaster on top was just a way of saying upgraded. Not sure why the confusion.
And yes, everything works now, but who knows if there will be conflicts down the line. You’ll probably just have to update tour plugins, but I’m sure that won’t be a problem.

Either way, it’s worth making the distinction between upgrading and installing from fresh, as your experience is going to be very different to someone like me who wants a clean install

[samsam]

fmr which version of Mac OS you sticking with for your music making? You on Logic?

I'm plenty happy with latest pre Catalina and latest Logic, no need to update here.

[Forgotten]

To be fair, Apple have been warning people for at least two years that 32bit apps were going to stop working. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Did you "actually" read Markus post? It isn't just 32-bit "apps" - even a 64-bit installer that has some 32-bit portion of code will not work.

Well regardless of whether it is apps or installers, 32-bit code won’t work and that was communicated over 2 years ago.

And your point is...? There is a world outside Apple, you now? And for the vast majority of developers (I'd risk ALL of them), macOS is not the main platform, and it's share is shrinking. Understandably, they had other things to care about.

The vast majority of developers warned their users to WAIT. They ahev as much right to do so as Apple has the right to choose not to support 32-bit. They even have the right to decide to not develop for macOS anymore. If the users are in a hurry to jump on the "latest and greatest" macOS, they will have to put aside everything that doesn't work. Or... WAIT. As simple as that.

I thought my point was quite clear. Not sure how you missed it.

[CasualHobbyist]

As for the second point. Well, you need to pay over a 100$ to develop on Windows (more specifically, to acquire a W10 license). Is not a free OS by any means, Microsoft isn't running a charity.

WHAT?

"Microsoft charges the most for Windows 10 keys. Windows 10 Home goes for $139 (£119.99 / AU$225), while Pro is $199.99 (£219.99 /AU$339)"

I am aware that prices may have been reduced or changed along way among certain periods. Or that there are some offers from OEMs or small vendors at significantly reduced prices (And that, oddly enough, prices are changed depending on the country or region Microsoft operates). However, I went to the MS online store and it was asking 199$ on the US store, which their main headquarters are based. So yes, I am right

[fmr]

fmr which version of Mac OS you sticking with for your music making? You on Logic?

I'm plenty happy with latest pre Catalina and latest Logic, no need to update here.

No, I abandoned Logic when Apple broke the upgrade path. I totally refused to pay full for something I already had (bought Mainstage to have access to the instruments).

I just upgraded my OS from Sierra to Mojave this week, although I still have a mirrored hard-drive with Sierra.

My main sequencer now is Cubase Pro, but I also run REAPER and Digital Performer. One key factor for my choices is cross-platform compatibility (which Logic lost).

[fmr]

As for the second point. Well, you need to pay over a 100$ to develop on Windows (more specifically, to acquire a W10 license). Is not a free OS by any means, Microsoft isn't running a charity.

WHAT?

"Microsoft charges the most for Windows 10 keys. Windows 10 Home goes for $139 (£119.99 / AU$225), while Pro is $199.99 (£219.99 /AU$339)"

Anyone that has a Windows 7 or Windows 8 license can install Windows 10 for free. And there are cheaper prices floating around in the Net. And you can go the Insider path too (which may make sense for a developer).

[CasualHobbyist]

Hmm, then perhaps someone could go the much cheaper way by asking someone to buy their "outdated" W7 license and update from there. Indeed that is a good plan, doesn't change that a W10 license by itself is far from free though.

[chk071]

Anyone that has a Windows 7 or Windows 8 license can install Windows 10 for free. And there are cheaper prices floating around in the Net. And you can go the Insider path too (which may make sense for a developer).

Yeah. To be fair, though, if you buy a license from a legit seller, you will pay more. But, again, you can activate Windows 10 with any 7 or 8 keys. I've done so on all of my machines, didn't pay a single cent for 10.

Doesn't mean people shouldn't pay full price, and fund further development, of course.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

fmr which version of Mac OS you sticking with for your music making? You on Logic?

I'm plenty happy with latest pre Catalina and latest Logic, no need to update here.

No, I left Logic when Apple broke the upgrade path. I totally refused to pay full for something I already had.

Except Logic Pro X costs the same to buy new as the upgrade from Logic 7 to 8, and the same to upgrade from 8 to 9. So, no loss. Moreover, with Logic Pro X, Apple have completely changed the rhythm and content of updates. Years of great updates and tons of bug-fixes for free, while Cubasers get hit every six-months for upgrade cash