Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18840 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:03 am

That too.

Stefken
KVRAF
1637 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:30 am

v1o wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:56 am
Newer CPUs are much faster at AVX operations.
How so?
You mean AVX-512? Your code has to be written to support it.
From what I can tell from a google search, Massive X does not support AVX-512.
I don't see it mentioned anywhere.

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DJ Warmonger
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3378 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:35 am

I don't see it mentioned anywhere.
Because nobody else mentioned it. Massive X runs with regular AVX instructions.
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EvilDragon
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18840 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:46 am

Stefken wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:30 am
v1o wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:56 am
Newer CPUs are much faster at AVX operations.
How so?
Newer CPUs can do certain AVX instructions in less CPU cycles than old ones.

hellomyfriend
KVRer
6 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:07 am

Nice!

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telecode
KVRian
1276 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:10 am

This is where I am dumb because I am not a programmer but just a scripter.

So does the AVX components just make the GUI of the VST product "prettier" or does it actually contribute in any way to the resolution or "quality" of the sound of the actual VST when used within the DAW or standalone mode?
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DJ Warmonger
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3378 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:27 am

telecode wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:10 am
This is where I am dumb because I am not a programmer but just a scripter.

So does the AVX components just make the GUI of the VST product "prettier" or does it actually contribute in any way to the resolution or "quality" of the sound of the actual VST when used within the DAW or standalone mode?
AVX instructions allows processor to do more work in a single operation. That is, to work faster.
Newer CPUs can do certain AVX instructions in less CPU cycles than old ones.
More precisely, old processors cannot execute AVX instructions at all, which is why Massive X won''t work with them.
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telecode
KVRian
1276 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:42 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:27 am
telecode wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:10 am
This is where I am dumb because I am not a programmer but just a scripter.

So does the AVX components just make the GUI of the VST product "prettier" or does it actually contribute in any way to the resolution or "quality" of the sound of the actual VST when used within the DAW or standalone mode?
AVX instructions allows processor to do more work in a single operation. That is, to work faster.
That still doesn't really answer the question. The question is, is AVX mostly noticeable in graphics operations such as gaming, video editing, photo editing, and/or pretty GUIs for VSTs, or is it going to be noticeable in the way sound is captured in a DAW?

The GUI for Massive X is obviously very different and more intricate than Massive. Is that the only reason it uses/requires AVX in CPU?
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DJ Warmonger
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3378 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:47 am

That still doesn't really answer the question. The question is, is AVX mostly noticeable in graphics operations such as gaming, video editing, photo editing, and/or pretty GUIs for VSTs, or is it going to be noticeable in the way sound is captured in a DAW?

The GUI for Massive X is obviously very different and more intricate than Massive. Is that the only reason it uses/requires AVX in CPU?
You don't get the point. It's all up to devs how they implemement it. From what was told it is clear that Massive X efficiency comes from the fact that synth DSP was implemented using AVX.

All graphics should be rendered with GPU using OpenGL, their impact on CPU has been neglible for years (if implemented correctly). Massive X GUI shouldn't consume any more CPU that any other window at your desktop, which is unnoticeable.
Last edited by DJ Warmonger on Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

Stefken
KVRAF
1637 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:59 am

telecode wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:10 am
This is where I am dumb because I am not a programmer but just a scripter.

So does the AVX components just make the GUI of the VST product "prettier"...?
Looking at the GUI, and knowing that they use AVX, you knew that statement could not be true, right. :)

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18840 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:43 am

AVX operations are not GUI related at all (GUI of MX just requires OpenGL 2.1 and above capable graphics chip), they are number-crunching (read: DSP) related because it allows processing multiple pieces of data simultaneously (within the same CPU clock). It's an extension of SSE operations.

acid alex
KVRist
251 posts since 23 Feb, 2017

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:00 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:03 am
Might be just due to audio-rate modulation, which is always enabled even if not really needed :?:
How do I check if audio rate modulation is turned on/off? I can't find a setting for it.

Even the MassiveX init patch runs at 12% CPU for me with just one note playing, with Unison turned on (6 voices) it goes up to 28%.

In contrast the Dune 3 init patch runs at 1% and then creeps up to 4% with 6 voice unison. If I then set Dune 3 to audio rate modulation it runs at 5% CPU.

One thing I have noticed is that the MassiveX init patch is set at poly 8 voices, and the CPU will remain at 28% whether I play one note or eight notes. If I decrease the Poly voices the CPU decreases down to 14% at one voice. So I think, while generally MX uses a lot of CPU, part of the issue is that if its set at Poly 8 then it will use the maximum CPU even if I'm playing only one note. Not sure if this makes sense.
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EnGee
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5686 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:56 pm

I don't know man! Either I have "super computer" or either I'm in heaven!
I have just tried to insert two tracks, one for MX and one for Dune3, and record one chord (3 notes) of both. MX has the preset "Ancient Future" while Dune 3 has the preset "Arctic Breath ST". Dune 3 has settings to Audio Rate.

The CPU of both is ridiculously low in Reaper (both have 12% RT CPU)! :
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telecode
KVRian
1276 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:13 pm

acid alex wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:00 pm
DJ Warmonger wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:03 am
Might be just due to audio-rate modulation, which is always enabled even if not really needed :?:
How do I check if audio rate modulation is turned on/off? I can't find a setting for it.

Even the MassiveX init patch runs at 12% CPU for me with just one note playing, with Unison turned on (6 voices) it goes up to 28%.

In contrast the Dune 3 init patch runs at 1% and then creeps up to 4% with 6 voice unison. If I then set Dune 3 to audio rate modulation it runs at 5% CPU.

One thing I have noticed is that the MassiveX init patch is set at poly 8 voices, and the CPU will remain at 28% whether I play one note or eight notes. If I decrease the Poly voices the CPU decreases down to 14% at one voice. So I think, while generally MX uses a lot of CPU, part of the issue is that if its set at Poly 8 then it will use the maximum CPU even if I'm playing only one note. Not sure if this makes sense.
Isn't that the exact same issue as with Diva? When first installed it sounds amazing and uses lots of CPU because of the "divine mode" and you reduce poly settings to get it under control.
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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3378 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Massive X v1.1.0 has been released

Post Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:50 am

acid alex wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:00 pm
DJ Warmonger wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:03 am
Might be just due to audio-rate modulation, which is always enabled even if not really needed :?:
How do I check if audio rate modulation is turned on/off? I can't find a setting for it.
There is no setting, Massive X offers audio-rate modulation as a key feature. It implies it's always active, unlike in Dune for example which has different settings.
I don't know man! Either I have "super computer" or either I'm in heaven!
Maybe you're smart with computers and they just work for you, unlike others :P
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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