Should I develop an Arpeggiator

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
graywolf2004
KVRian
538 posts since 15 Apr, 2012 from Moscow, Russia

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:50 pm

David wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 am
IOW, DO try to make "ultimate-super-do-it-all" arp with "unlimited possibilites".
Limitations are already richly available in every other arp currently on offer.
I know this "unlimited possibilities" thing is appealing. Several years ago I was looking for this kind of solutions myself. But put it this way: from the developer side, you have more chances to do something unique if you focus on a narrow area, rather than trying to do something super-flexible with tons of features. Especially if you do a one-man project.

enCiphered
KVRian
712 posts since 13 Dec, 2016

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:00 pm

David wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 am
The main things that would make a new arp app a must buy, all-time best, for me, would be:

#1. Complete editability of each and every step of the arp pattern, including pitch, octave, duration, velocity and polyphony (as in BlueArp), ideally with unlimited steps, and including some unique note fx, expanding upon those in the Omnisphere 2.6 arp.

#2. Pattern switching via keyswitches, as well as a pattern chaining sequencer, as in BlueArp.

#3. All parameters modulatable, as in the Omni arp, via MIDI CC, MIDI Learn, and ideally, also using internal modulators, plus a collection of additional internal MIDI FX and MIDI CC out capability as in the HY Seq Collection2. A MIDI recorder would be cool, too, as in the Seq Collection, but not essential.

#4. Available as an AU MIDI FX, as well vst/vst3. With MIDI Through!

IOW, DO try to make "ultimate-super-do-it-all" arp with "unlimited possibilites".
Limitations are already richly available in every other arp currently on offer.

As for the perfect balance between features and simplicity, a simple choose-a-pattern, set-some-basics, opening GUI makes sense to me, for those who don't expect a lot from an arpeggiator and don't want complexity, with the available depth provided in one or more Edit/Expert level pages/tabs for those who want to do things that no other arp app can currently do.
Not a single mention of randomization in your listings. You want to do everything you mention by hand, all the time? What makes the HYPlugins so powerful is the randomization engine. I can tweak everything I want and lock the parameters and just hit random to change everything else until I find the perfect settings. This is so creative and saves tons of time.
For me the most important feature a sequencer or arpeggiator must offer. If it doesn´t I won´t buy it.

David
KVRAF
1580 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:18 pm

enCiphered wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:00 pm
David wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 am
The main things that would make a new arp app a must buy, all-time best, for me, would be:

#1. Complete editability of each and every step of the arp pattern, including pitch, octave, duration, velocity and polyphony (as in BlueArp), ideally with unlimited steps, and including some unique note fx, expanding upon those in the Omnisphere 2.6 arp.

#2. Pattern switching via keyswitches, as well as a pattern chaining sequencer, as in BlueArp.

#3. All parameters modulatable, as in the Omni arp, via MIDI CC, MIDI Learn, and ideally, also using internal modulators, plus a collection of additional internal MIDI FX and MIDI CC out capability as in the HY Seq Collection2. A MIDI recorder would be cool, too, as in the Seq Collection, but not essential.

#4. Available as an AU MIDI FX, as well vst/vst3. With MIDI Through!

IOW, DO try to make "ultimate-super-do-it-all" arp with "unlimited possibilites".
Limitations are already richly available in every other arp currently on offer.

As for the perfect balance between features and simplicity, a simple choose-a-pattern, set-some-basics, opening GUI makes sense to me, for those who don't expect a lot from an arpeggiator and don't want complexity, with the available depth provided in one or more Edit/Expert level pages/tabs for those who want to do things that no other arp app can currently do.
Not a single mention of randomization in your listings. You want to do everything you mention by hand, all the time? What makes the HYPlugins so powerful is the randomization engine. I can tweak everything I want and lock the parameters and just hit random to change everything else until I find the perfect settings. This is so creative and saves tons of time.
For me the most important feature a sequencer or arpeggiator must offer. If it doesn´t I won´t buy it.
Sure, why not? I certainly use the dice in the Seq Collection, but didn’t think to include it in this list since I personally prefer to ‘compose’ and micro-tweak the patterns in my current top editable arps: BlueArp and Omnisphere 2.6—the ability to do exactly that is what I love about them.

David
KVRAF
1580 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:28 pm

graywolf2004 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:50 pm
David wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 am
IOW, DO try to make "ultimate-super-do-it-all" arp with "unlimited possibilites".
Limitations are already richly available in every other arp currently on offer.
I know this "unlimited possibilities" thing is appealing. Several years ago I was looking for this kind of solutions myself. But put it this way: from the developer side, you have more chances to do something unique if you focus on a narrow area, rather than trying to do something super-flexible with tons of features. Especially if you do a one-man project.
As a user and not a developer I can only defer to your experience on that side of the issue! Interesting, tho, that of all the arps I love and use most frequently, yours is actually the most complex and flexible, by far, with the most features I’d hate to be without in any new contender:)

But I must add that I never use it without also wishing for few great added features from other favs!

User avatar
graywolf2004
KVRian
538 posts since 15 Apr, 2012 from Moscow, Russia

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:00 am

johnwoo wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:25 am
I have Karma 2 in my Korg M3 , something like this in software it will be gold .
I wanted to mention KARMA also but then saw your post. There IS Karma in software, but you need to have one of Korg synths to make it work. At least it was so several years ago whan I was into this topic.
I had original Korg KARMA for some time (it is based on Triton LE sound engine). I remember for sure - from the synth itself you can tweak only the essentials. To go deep, you need this KARMA software. Although I never used it, I think it outsmarts many arps, if not all. But for me the whole thing was too complex. I remember I ended up using "Basic" GE only which sounded more like a conventional arpeggiator with dozens of presets. Everything else was suited for certain instruments and playing techniques - like guitar strumming, orchestral strings etc. Also they were fine-tuned for these Korg patches.
AFAIK Stephen Kay developed it around 10 years before it was initially released in original Korg Karma. So for those looking for something with unlimited possibilities - IMHO this is the thing.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16347 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:24 am

What I am not interested is a 'do every imaginable thing' arpeggiator/complex sequencer. It becomes unwieldy and too heavy.

What I would like for an arpeggiator is a performance arpeggiator. Something aimed at realtime playing. I like to 'play' an arpeggiator by the notes I hold down rather than programming sophisticated note sequences. Note sequences are too rigid to be multi-use, plus my DAW is already a complex sequencer.

I would like rhythm sequences (including timing and velocity and without pitch)... the sequence makes a groove, not a pitch sequence. I would like to be able to record grooves by live playing on the moment, save it to one of say 6-8 slots

I would like keyswitches for stuff like mute, momentary mute, reset, note repeat, switch groove between the 6-8 slots.

I would like MPE option so I can play it with an MPE controller and the arp maintains and transmits the note per channel and X, Y and Z axis data

That's it... I have no interest in randomization, song mode, complex modulations, massively long sequences with lots of editability of lots of lanes. My DAW is already quite capable of all that.

I want a new tool that is agile, fast and realtime flexible which responds to my live playing.

Melodology
KVRist
30 posts since 16 Jan, 2020 from Milton Keynes, UK

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:06 am

I'm pleased to say I have a GUI design almost complete, which I'll post here in a couple of days.

User avatar
phreaque
KVRian
993 posts since 17 Jul, 2007 from Baghdad-Iq

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:55 am

Melodology wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:06 am
I'm pleased to say I have a GUI design almost complete, which I'll post here in a couple of days.
Interesting! I was thinking about this thread yesterday & thought you might started the work since you haven't posted lately :) good luck & looking forward to see the 1st release :hyper:
Saif Sameer - content designer
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Halma
KVRian
1013 posts since 9 Apr, 2012

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:05 am

vitocorleone123 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:26 pm
Don't forget to check out the multitude of options on iOS first.
This.

Arpeggionome Pro ( https://alexandernaut.com/arpeggionome-pro/# ) is so much fun. Not quite sure if this one could be transferred to a non touch device but it is a shitload of fun triggering your synths with it.
Underground Music Production: Sound Design, Machine Funk, High Tech Soul

Stryves
Banned
65 posts since 22 Jun, 2018 from CaNada

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:42 pm

graywolf2004 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:58 am
...
3. You will get both positive and negative feedback. Sometimes - very negative. Be prepared to that.
...
Been using BlueARP for a long time, really thankful for you putting all that effort into it. This #3 is critical, because users are critical at times.

Best of luck to your project, and thank you graywolf2004 as well for your tool and helping others on theirs!

Melodology
KVRist
30 posts since 16 Jan, 2020 from Milton Keynes, UK

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:32 pm

Stryves wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:42 pm
graywolf2004 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:58 am
...
3. You will get both positive and negative feedback. Sometimes - very negative. Be prepared to that.
...
Been using BlueARP for a long time, really thankful for you putting all that effort into it. This #3 is critical, because users are critical at times.

Best of luck to your project, and thank you graywolf2004 as well for your tool and helping others on theirs!
I'm thick skinned, I've been in an industry for 30 years that's full of people that are quick to criticize.

Melodology
KVRist
30 posts since 16 Jan, 2020 from Milton Keynes, UK

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:33 pm

Halma wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:05 am
vitocorleone123 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:26 pm
Don't forget to check out the multitude of options on iOS first.
This.

Arpeggionome Pro ( https://alexandernaut.com/arpeggionome-pro/# ) is so much fun. Not quite sure if this one could be transferred to a non touch device but it is a shitload of fun triggering your synths with it.
I'm not a Mac user and I honestly want something that is accessible to everyone.

Melodology
KVRist
30 posts since 16 Jan, 2020 from Milton Keynes, UK

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:43 pm

So here is the SEQUENCER MODE (Arp mode to follow)
ArpSeq 001.png
ArpSeq 002.png
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Melodology
KVRist
30 posts since 16 Jan, 2020 from Milton Keynes, UK

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:46 pm

Melodology wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:43 pm
So here is the SEQUENCER MODE (Arp mode to follow)

ArpSeq 001.png

ArpSeq 002.png
The small knobs on the lower half are for dialing in randomization

psynical
KVRist
154 posts since 16 Jan, 2019 from Portland, Oregon

Re: Should I develop an Arpeggiator

Post Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:06 pm

that's looking great so far!

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