acoustic instruments emulations devs. how much did you experienced this ?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Krakatau
KVRAF
5579 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:28 am

Not a new interrogation there...

Knowing that a guitar emulation can be reduced at a certain degree as being 6 monophonic lines...that an important factor of acoustic realism can be related to the behaviour of these 6 monophonic lines maybe even more than the timbral realism of the only sampled guitars...

...how much would you have experienced that, depending the acoustic instruments,the phrases, the way the instrument might be played might even be more crucial than the accuracy of it sampled library ?

...and how much, as a pure exercise of style, would it be interesting to emulate an instrument or another without sampled library...how much an accurate emulation of the behaviour of an instrument , especially a guitar IMO, might leave enough room to use very different samples (or not) as soundsources ?

again, as a pure exercise of style, ...i'm really curious ?

User avatar
Krakatau
KVRAF
5579 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: acoustic instruments emulations devs. how much did you experienced this ?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:16 pm

very likely such an area isn't of much interest commercially talking , but an a more creative focus i'm persuaded it deserves to be considered

what do you think ?

Apart from a complete guitar emulation, you might have experienced that many musical ornaments are typical of an instrument or another (harspichord, brass, fretted plucked string other than guitars, etc..., etc...) having a high enough level of suggestion of the original instrument that you won't necessarily need realistic waveforms to suggest the original instrument ?

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5417 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: acoustic instruments emulations devs. how much did you experienced this ?

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:52 am

The problem with your question is that the answer is pretty obvious: idiomatic playing will make any instrument sound more like the target instrument.

There was a thread not long ago where someone was asking why their accordion track didn't sound like an accordion even though it was based on a (pretty good) sample library. Answer: the playing style was all wrong for what they were trying to achieve. They weren't even playing idiomatic motifs. Conversely, one of the early JM Jarre albums has him aping a Parisian band reasonably convincingly with some analogue synths.

Roger Linn's videos demonstrating the Linnstrument show a pitchbend technique (semi or full tone interval slide up to unison) that's a guitar-playing staple. And it sounds vaguely guitar-like no matter what the sound if you're attuned to it. Similarly, hammer-ons and pull-offs also work well on the Linnstrument. But you're going to get big differences in articulations because some fretwork relies on being able to use your thumb on the back of the neck as a lever, which doesn't work for the Linnstrument because it's too big. You also can't bend pitch in the same way. Playing-wise, it's often more like a Chapman Stick or a pedal steel than a regular guitar.

User avatar
Krakatau
KVRAF
5579 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: acoustic instruments emulations devs. how much did you experienced this ?

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:44 am

"The problem with your question is that the answer is pretty obvious"

Trust me that less than 10 years ago it wasn't the case at all...

...by far

User avatar
Krakatau
KVRAF
5579 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: acoustic instruments emulations devs. how much did you experienced this ?

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:35 am

" idiomatic playing will make any instrument sound more like the target instrument."

Well...

...rather than this level that is happening at the composer or the performer level,that i also experienced myself of course, i was thinking about articulations created inside a plugin instrument, mostly sampled library

A more deeply studied level

User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5417 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: acoustic instruments emulations devs. how much did you experienced this ?

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:43 am

Tools like NotePerformer exist.

But they can't work miracles. If the composer hasn't taken into account how articulations fit together, there is always going to be an uncanny valley problem. There may be a case for some sort of hybrid between NotePerformer and the more realistic libraries like SampleModelling where you stitch together prearranged gestures but you are always going to come back to the same tradeoff between having that embedded in a sample library vs simply making one react to real-time controller changes so the decision is up to the performer/composer how authentic they want to be.

Outside realistic libraries, you could put, say, Bawu-style mordents into a wind-synth patch but I don't know why anyone would bother to do that. It would probably be better to have some kind of MIDI processor that can take a key switch and generate a set of CC messages in response if you can't work out a combo of pitch/mod/breath/bite signals to get the same job done.

Edited: NotePerformer is not just MIDI. I thought it was but may have been thinking of another tool that's out there.

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