Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
dickiefunk
KVRAF
2637 posts since 22 Mar, 2006 from cornwall

Post Fri May 22, 2020 5:45 am

Hi,

I'm looking to upgrade my bass samples from the Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass libraries. These have been great work horse bass libraries but I'm wondering what would be a step up in detail and realism? I particularly want a Fender Jazz and Precision bass with a comprehensive set of playing techniques for fingered, slapped and picked. The Scarbee basses don't have picked versions and the Pre-Bass doesn't include slap techniques.

The Scarbee Jay-Bass is based on the original Scarbee J-Slap and J-Fingered library from 18 years ago and Pre-Bass is at least 11 years old which is a real testament to how well done they were sampled. However, I'm wondering how far bass libraries have come? I also own Orange Tree Sample's Cherry Electric Bass but don't really use that any more.

I'm aware of the Ample Sound libraries, SpectraSonics Trillian, IK MODO, Vir2 Basis, Waves Bass Fingered and Slapped and the brand new ToonTrack EzBass. However, the Ample Sound samples are expensive as just the P-Bass costs $169 and the picked articulations are and extra $69! Trillian, Basis and EzBass don't have demos to try so I don't really want to spend up to $300 to find I'm not happy with it.
I really like the sound of EzBass apart from the slap demo on their website. I much prefer the tone of Scarbee's Jay Bass for slapping. Can the tone of the Slapping be changed in EzBass?

JohnPativens
KVRist
167 posts since 12 May, 2011 from Italy

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 7:34 am

Do you like IKM Modo? That's what I would use now if I wasn't a bass player. I'm totally fine with Scarbee basses though. Fact is both need a good amount of programming or live key switching virtuosism on keyboard in order to play a convincing line for me to be fooled by. Good for rendering then, not for composing. Sampletank 3 basses are pretty good for laying down a quick and temporary bass track instead.
I guess EZbass will be the way to go once Toontrack start releasing expansions and midi libraries.

Ah_Dziz
KVRAF
2856 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 am

I’d go with Orange Tree Samples for bass. They are rad. Also the scarbee Rick Bass is pretty amazing.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

dickiefunk
KVRAF
2637 posts since 22 Mar, 2006 from cornwall

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 10:34 am

JohnPativens wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:34 am
Do you like IKM Modo? That's what I would use now if I wasn't a bass player. I'm totally fine with Scarbee basses though. Fact is both need a good amount of programming or live key switching virtuosism on keyboard in order to play a convincing line for me to be fooled by. Good for rendering then, not for composing. Sampletank 3 basses are pretty good for laying down a quick and temporary bass track instead.
I guess EZbass will be the way to go once Toontrack start releasing expansions and midi libraries.
I've had a listen to the audio demos of Modo and am not 100% convinced by it. I'm going to download and try the demo out.

dickiefunk
KVRAF
2637 posts since 22 Mar, 2006 from cornwall

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 10:37 am

Ah_Dziz wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 am
I’d go with Orange Tree Samples for bass. They are rad. Also the scarbee Rick Bass is pretty amazing.
I've already got the Orange Tree Cherry Electric, Evolution Rick, Iconic Bass Jaco and Pear. Whilst these are all pretty good I prefer the Scarbee basses. I also got the Scarbee Rick but I am particularly after Jazz and Precision type basses.

Ah_Dziz
KVRAF
2856 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 10:45 am

I’m not a “real” bassist, so I don’t really know the difference between various models. The newer OTS basses (flat wound, and roundwound) cover pretty much any sound I want. They are crazy flexible in tone and playability.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

ilmai
KVRist
447 posts since 25 Aug, 2016 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 11:09 am

I've tried Scarbee basses (since I have Komplete) and MODO, personally I prefer MODO for its tweakability. I'm going to jump on the EZbass bandwagon however, purely for the features, as those sound like they will make my workflow a lot better. Being able to play in a bass part with guitar and edit the notes afterwards is kind of a killer feature for me.

JohnPativens
KVRist
167 posts since 12 May, 2011 from Italy

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 11:14 am

dickiefunk wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:34 am
JohnPativens wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:34 am
Do you like IKM Modo? That's what I would use now if I wasn't a bass player. I'm totally fine with Scarbee basses though. Fact is both need a good amount of programming or live key switching virtuosism on keyboard in order to play a convincing line for me to be fooled by. Good for rendering then, not for composing. Sampletank 3 basses are pretty good for laying down a quick and temporary bass track instead.
I guess EZbass will be the way to go once Toontrack start releasing expansions and midi libraries.
I've had a listen to the audio demos of Modo and am not 100% convinced by it. I'm going to download and try the demo out.
Modo has the same cons as the finest sample library in terms of user approach on how convincing it can sound.

https://youtu.be/WB1NHHKkUjs

I've heard same level results with Scarbee basses, and I guess that required even more programming/playing skills. In the end it's all about how you know to actually copy technique and mindset of a real bassplayer then translate it to the virtual environment: either you are a piano roll virtuoso or good enough on keys to master the instrument in live performance (which is true for every sample library actually).

Toontrack will fill that gap with EZbass like they did with drums and keys, doing the hard job for the final user which can fit and mod the provided "cliché" grooves and fills to his own compositions without having to program an entire set of articulations note by note. They're basically offering the mindset and skills instead of a sound library, which, in terms of sound and detail, are mostly pretty good already.

Winstontaneous
KVRAF
1822 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Berkeley, CA

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 11:49 am

I've been playing bass for 35 years and reach for the Scarbee stuff when I don't record the real thing. I'd recommend their Rickenbacker, has great picked and distorted tones. The Jazz Bass or Music Man StingRay is the classic slap tone, it's perfectly possible to get a great slap tone on a P-bass but it's less commonly found in sampled basses.

Bass-nerd notes:
- The series wiring of the P-bass split-coil humbucking pickup emphasizes midrange while the J-bass gets a mid-scooped tone with both single-coil pickups on (they're wired in parallel)
- For real classic modern J-Bass slap tone, you want a sampled '70s Jazz bass ('71/'72 or later) as the bridge pickup was moved about 1/2" closer to the bridge.
- Oddly, the Scarbee MM (Music Man) focuses on slap but uses flatwound rather than roundwound strings so it's not really the classic bright, zingy slap sound we're used to.
- I much prefer the sound of the Leo Fender-era Music Man basses with 2-band EQ, to my ears the Ernie Ball-era 3-band preamp really does a disservice to the instrument (at least on the models without the series/parallel/single-coil switch).

JohnPativens
KVRist
167 posts since 12 May, 2011 from Italy

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 12:11 pm

Winstontaneous wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:49 am

- For real classic modern J-Bass slap tone, you want a sampled '70s Jazz bass ('71/'72 or later) as the bridge pickup was moved about 1/2" closer to the bridge.
- Oddly, the Scarbee MM (Music Man) focuses on slap but uses flatwound rather than roundwound strings so it's not really the classic bright, zingy slap sound we're used to.
Scarbee JBass has a totally fine slap articulation. I think that's the go to sample library covering the typical bass sound which non-bass people usually look for.
Also, I think they sampled the flatwound MM mostly to cover that Earth Wind and Fire era vibe.

Kazi7
KVRist
107 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 12:16 pm

Waves Bass Fingers is pretty good and comprehensive as far as "fingered" playing techniques go. I'm not a Waves fan at all, but I had to buy that one after I saw some demos and it did not disappoint. Get it when its below 30 bucks (which will inevitably be the case).
Help us to create SFZ mappings of great free sample libraries not yet available in the SFZ format - here

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Aloysius
KVRAF
28302 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from another dimension

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Fri May 22, 2020 1:30 pm

Good price and sounds from waves but they take an age to load.
Hi-de-Hi!

Kazi7
KVRist
107 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Sat May 23, 2020 12:33 am

Aloysius wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:30 pm
Good price and sounds from waves but they take an age to load.
True, but it seems to be very deeply sampled. Lot's of velocity layers, release samples and so on and once loaded it runs perfectly. There is also a lighter version of the sample library included for faster loading times.
Help us to create SFZ mappings of great free sample libraries not yet available in the SFZ format - here

Kinh
KVRian
1365 posts since 26 Aug, 2012

Re: Bass libraries to upgrade NI Scarbee Jay and Pre Bass?

Post Sat May 23, 2020 12:52 am

Tillian is the best for price and quality. It dont matter if there's no demo, all the others dont have demos either. At least with Trillian you dont just get one bass, you get many including sampled synth basses which have an analogue warmth that the emulator vsts dont

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