Steinberg Backbone - Drum Re-synthesizer

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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hesnotthemessiah
KVRian
949 posts since 6 Jun, 2003 from Reading UK. (U rrrrrrs)

Post Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:55 am

I posted the following on Steinberg's Backbone forum:-

I like to fade in some reverb, from zero reverb to full on reverb, at different times on various layers using automation in Backbone. This, and other creative fx use, is rather tricky, if not impossible, at the moment with the FX Bus dial's middle position sending equal parts of the signal to each of the busses.

Can we have an extra option for how the FX Bus dial is configured or an extra Bus Routing option:-

FX Bus dial's middle position sending no parts of the signal to either of the busses. So the dials goes from the centre anticlockwise to increase the signal sent to FX1 from 0% to 100% and from the centre clockwise to increase the signal sent to FX2 from 0% to 100%.

Or even better:-

Two separate send dials:- one for FX1 and one for FX2.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 2&t=190591
Windows 10. Asus X99-Pro i7 6950X 10 Core 3GHz (Overclocked to 3.5GHz). Corsair DDR4 64GB Vengeance LPX 2400MHz. RME RayDAT. NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970. UAD2 Quad+Octo. Reaper. A couple of plugins.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
9356 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:54 pm

Is there any benefit in Backbone for avoiding machine gun effect of samples? Or does it play back pretty much just like a sample unless you really mess with modulation?

I guess I'm thinking that resynthesis for drum sounds could maybe yield some kind of benefit of doing subtle changes that make it more like a synth drum machine but nobody has real shown that in videos or talked about it.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

User avatar
Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
15700 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Post Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:03 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:54 pm
Is there any benefit in Backbone for avoiding machine gun effect of samples? Or does it play back pretty much just like a sample unless you really mess with modulation?

I guess I'm thinking that resynthesis for drum sounds could maybe yield some kind of benefit of doing subtle changes that make it more like a synth drum machine but nobody has real shown that in videos or talked about it.
You can modulate sample start via velocity (like in Groove Agent, so you set a zone at the beginning of a sample in which velocity modulation applies) and you can randomize pitch (also by tiny amounts), but of course that won't substitute proper round robin.

renasent
KVRer
5 posts since 25 Dec, 2014

Post Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:56 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:03 pm
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:54 pm
Is there any benefit in Backbone for avoiding machine gun effect of samples? Or does it play back pretty much just like a sample unless you really mess with modulation?

I guess I'm thinking that resynthesis for drum sounds could maybe yield some kind of benefit of doing subtle changes that make it more like a synth drum machine but nobody has real shown that in videos or talked about it.
You can modulate sample start via velocity (like in Groove Agent, so you set a zone at the beginning of a sample in which velocity modulation applies) and you can randomize pitch (also by tiny amounts), but of course that won't substitute proper round robin.
I was hoping that this was the case but they have a missed opportunity here. There should be per-note randomisation available on much more parameters, including on the resynthesis parameters, but there is not. This was one of the main reasons I bought it.

I wonder, in Ableton, is there a way to add scalable, per-note randomisation on selected plugin parameters?

Smapti
KVRist
188 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:57 am

hesnotthemessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:50 am
Smapti wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:38 pm
Correct, you can't set velocity ranges for different layers. Amplitude (& some other useful parameters, such as sample start position) does have velocity sensitivity, and you can invert the sensitivity; so as you mention, you can control layer volumes that way.
I had requested inverted (I called it negative) velocity sensitivity for amplitude (and filter) on Steinberg's Backbone forum earlier today. Is inverted sensitivity already possible for volume then?

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 2&t=190592
It is, yes. Iirc all of the velocity-controlled parameters can have inverted modulation.

User avatar
hesnotthemessiah
KVRian
949 posts since 6 Jun, 2003 from Reading UK. (U rrrrrrs)

Post Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:19 am

Smapti wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:57 am
hesnotthemessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:50 am
Smapti wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:38 pm
Correct, you can't set velocity ranges for different layers. Amplitude (& some other useful parameters, such as sample start position) does have velocity sensitivity, and you can invert the sensitivity; so as you mention, you can control layer volumes that way.
I had requested inverted (I called it negative) velocity sensitivity for amplitude (and filter) on Steinberg's Backbone forum earlier today. Is inverted sensitivity already possible for volume then?

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 2&t=190592
It is, yes. Iirc all of the velocity-controlled parameters can have inverted modulation.
Can't see how to set inverted modulation for any of the velocity controls and no mention of it in the manual. Please let me know for sure.
Windows 10. Asus X99-Pro i7 6950X 10 Core 3GHz (Overclocked to 3.5GHz). Corsair DDR4 64GB Vengeance LPX 2400MHz. RME RayDAT. NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970. UAD2 Quad+Octo. Reaper. A couple of plugins.

Smapti
KVRist
188 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:40 am

hesnotthemessiah wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:19 am
Smapti wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:57 am
hesnotthemessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:50 am
Smapti wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:38 pm
Correct, you can't set velocity ranges for different layers. Amplitude (& some other useful parameters, such as sample start position) does have velocity sensitivity, and you can invert the sensitivity; so as you mention, you can control layer volumes that way.
I had requested inverted (I called it negative) velocity sensitivity for amplitude (and filter) on Steinberg's Backbone forum earlier today. Is inverted sensitivity already possible for volume then?

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 2&t=190592
It is, yes. Iirc all of the velocity-controlled parameters can have inverted modulation.
Can't see how to set inverted modulation for any of the velocity controls and no mention of it in the manual. Please let me know for sure.
My apologies, you are correct. Some of the velocity parameters can be inverted, but not the amplitude and filter level velocities. You can invert velocity for amplitude and filter envelope times, which might kinda do what you want (you can set it so higher velocities make the envelopes shorter), but that isn't the same thing.

User avatar
hesnotthemessiah
KVRian
949 posts since 6 Jun, 2003 from Reading UK. (U rrrrrrs)

Post Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:20 am

Smapti wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:40 am
hesnotthemessiah wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:19 am
Smapti wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:57 am
hesnotthemessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:50 am
Smapti wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:38 pm
Correct, you can't set velocity ranges for different layers. Amplitude (& some other useful parameters, such as sample start position) does have velocity sensitivity, and you can invert the sensitivity; so as you mention, you can control layer volumes that way.
I had requested inverted (I called it negative) velocity sensitivity for amplitude (and filter) on Steinberg's Backbone forum earlier today. Is inverted sensitivity already possible for volume then?

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 2&t=190592
It is, yes. Iirc all of the velocity-controlled parameters can have inverted modulation.
Can't see how to set inverted modulation for any of the velocity controls and no mention of it in the manual. Please let me know for sure.
My apologies, you are correct. Some of the velocity parameters can be inverted, but not the amplitude and filter level velocities. You can invert velocity for amplitude and filter envelope times, which might kinda do what you want (you can set it so higher velocities make the envelopes shorter), but that isn't the same thing.
Thanks for confirming that :tu: You can invert the way velocity affects amplitude and filter envelope times but not their levels.
Windows 10. Asus X99-Pro i7 6950X 10 Core 3GHz (Overclocked to 3.5GHz). Corsair DDR4 64GB Vengeance LPX 2400MHz. RME RayDAT. NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970. UAD2 Quad+Octo. Reaper. A couple of plugins.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
9356 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:25 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:03 pm
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:54 pm
Is there any benefit in Backbone for avoiding machine gun effect of samples? Or does it play back pretty much just like a sample unless you really mess with modulation?

I guess I'm thinking that resynthesis for drum sounds could maybe yield some kind of benefit of doing subtle changes that make it more like a synth drum machine but nobody has real shown that in videos or talked about it.
You can modulate sample start via velocity (like in Groove Agent, so you set a zone at the beginning of a sample in which velocity modulation applies) and you can randomize pitch (also by tiny amounts), but of course that won't substitute proper round robin.
So not really different from any sampler.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

rardier
KVRist
187 posts since 22 Feb, 2014

Post Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:41 am

does backbone add latency? i am asking this because i use cubase and maschine , and my idea is to use backbone in maschine but maschine doesn't report latency.. ( also maschine can't use vst3 but i can find vst3->vst2 wrapper or host) , or maybe i should use something like eventide physion in maschine (physion for the split atonal/tonal and maschine for the layering)..

Smapti
KVRist
188 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:34 am

rardier wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:41 am
does backbone add latency? i am asking this because i use cubase and maschine , and my idea is to use backbone in maschine but maschine doesn't report latency.. ( also maschine can't use vst3 but i can find vst3->vst2 wrapper or host) , or maybe i should use something like eventide physion in maschine (physion for the split atonal/tonal and maschine for the layering)..
I haven't experienced any significant latency. It's possible that things could slow down if you have a lot of layers with resynthesis and fx or other complex stuff going on, but you can always resample if need be.

User avatar
Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
15700 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Post Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:45 am

For all fence sitters: there is a demo for Backbone available now.

User avatar
Biome_Digital
KVRAF
1586 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Post Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:23 am

Trying the demo of this drove me nuts! I had to jump through hoops to download it and then it wouldn't "authorise" with the E-licencer playing up. In the end wasted an hour and gave up. Ridiculous demo experience.

User avatar
Guillermo Navarrete
KVRist
477 posts since 4 Jun, 2013 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:05 am

Hello,
Biome_Digital wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:23 am
Trying the demo of this drove me nuts! I had to jump through hoops to download it and then it wouldn't "authorise" with the E-licencer playing up. In the end wasted an hour and gave up. Ridiculous demo experience.
To solve your problem please update the eLicenser database.
Open the eLicenser Control Center
Go to “Support” menu and choose “Update eLicenser License Database”

That should fix your issue.

Cheers,
GN
Guillermo Navarrete, Product Specialist
Steinberg
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on Steinberg

Kiitwa
KVRist
42 posts since 21 Apr, 2004

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:25 am


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