MPEfy, plug-in tool for expressive controllers

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
8441 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:18 am

^ Synapse synths lock pitch as well. And there are some others where turning on MPE makes it 48 automatically, can't remember right now.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
8441 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:19 am

Does this tool have a VST3 version? And does it load VST3 plugins?
Another cool thing about this is that it has the expression curves, which many synths do not have that are MPE compatible. So it would often be preferable than using the built-in MPE of a synth.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
16289 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:44 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:18 am
^ Synapse synths lock pitch as well. And there are some others where turning on MPE makes it 48 automatically, can't remember right now.
Not that I'm in the market for any new synths, but that is good to know.

Thanks :tu:

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
16289 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:46 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:19 am
Another cool thing about this is that it has the expression curves, which many synths do not have that are MPE compatible. So it would often be preferable than using the built-in MPE of a synth.
Yup! It's actually very elegant. Alas...

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
10385 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:58 am

I don’t think the price is way out of line, if it allows for a curve that can act like a threshold for expression. Roli puts this in their software, but there’s no way to configure my Rise 49 to have it come directly from the controller. Does this make sense? I just want to be able to have things like pressure not always transmitting even at the most gentlest touches. More like aftertouch works in a traditional keyboard.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

deastman
KVRAF
7514 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:21 am

This is an interesting idea. I’m also kind of iffy on the price, considering that I already have so many VSTi’s which support MPE. I’m just not sure if it’s something I really need anymore.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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Rivanni
KVRist
409 posts since 4 Feb, 2017

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:49 am

JB Audio wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:03 pm
If you have an MPE device I am curious about your thoughts and I hope you will give it a try.
I installed the demo and right away uninstalled it.
Why did you think it was a good idea to create a tiny hard to read AND non-scalable interface?

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
8441 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:35 pm

Tried the demo. Looks like the function to update the voices does indeed capture the complete settings of the instrument, so it must be doing some kind of preset/state save of the plugin within the host plugin to apply to the hidden instances. That's good, I was afraid it would be just update the parameters that were exposed and available for expression. But of course you need to be able to tweak everything so that's good.

The bad (not necessarily deal breakers though):
When you open the plugin itself, it opens in a new application window outside of the DAW. This can be really annoying for focus issues like when you want to have your key commands and keep the app focus on the DAW but have the plugin window open. I've seen other plugins do this and then change so I hope this one can change to open the plugin window within the DAW like normal plugins. Secondly as mentioned it is a very small GUI. Why? Need it bigger. Especially important with the expression curve graphs. It's a simple interface that could easily be vector, resizable.

Other good news is that it is VST3 but can load VST2 and VST3.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
8441 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 pm

A very interesting side effect of this method of having one instance per voice is that you actually end up getting modulatable effects per voice. This is kind of a big deal actually and is something that I really like about using mpe with Omnisphere and it's multi-part set up. Not only do effects sound different when they are per voice rather than over the whole signal (especially distortion), but also with effects copied per instance you can use mpe expressions (and even sometimes the built-in modulations) on the effects parameters to get interesting per note effects modulations. Think like a delay effect changing rate rapidly with pressure, but different rates per note, things like that. Some synths have modulations on effects but it usually doesn't make sense to use the per voice modulators like envelopes because the effects can't normally react independently, but with a multi-instance/copy set up they can, because there is an effect per voice, much like the filter is normally.

Actually this brings up a good feature request: Allow a few slots for vst fx after the instrument which can also be assigned to mpe expressions.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
10385 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:47 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 pm
A very interesting side effect of this method of having one instance per voice is that you actually end up getting modulatable effects per voice. This is kind of a big deal actually and is something that I really like about using mpe with Omnisphere and it's multi-part set up. Not only do effects sound different when they are per voice rather than over the whole signal (especially distortion), but also with effects copied per instance you can use mpe expressions (and even sometimes the built-in modulations) on the effects parameters to get interesting per note effects modulations. Think like a delay effect changing rate rapidly with pressure, but different rates per note, things like that. Some synths have modulations on effects but it usually doesn't make sense to use the per voice modulators like envelopes because the effects can't normally react independently, but with a multi-instance/copy set up they can, because there is an effect per voice, much like the filter is normally.

Actually this brings up a good feature request: Allow a few slots for vst fx after the instrument which can also be assigned to mpe expressions.
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of the multiple instance giving an effect channel per instance. That is a cool thing, especially with something like delay time modulation. Trippy.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Noumena
KVRist
206 posts since 4 May, 2019

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Cool -- what I am interested in is how does this work for MPE instruments. I need a utility like this that modifies my expression curves... but I would be using it on an instrument that is MPE enabled.

Also! We need a MPE expression lag processor in a plugin like this... with separate attack and decay settings.... especially for pressure.

Whywhy
KVRian
580 posts since 11 Aug, 2018

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:47 pm

+1 for a slew rise and fall.
A lot of things could be done.
Some math between formula for cc, gate...

WasteLand
KVRian
1034 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:41 am

nice idea. the price isn't... but maybe we are spoiled with sales...
i think i can mimick it within Voltage Modular. perhaps even slew rise and fall. i shall try a minimoog (yes the very critized Mini V3, that i really like, but it works for my music and style. a lot of presets i made for it.)

i always think, first, can i already do it. (like eventide physion, every Melda MB, can do it, and of course MXXX(MXXXCore, and i have many Melda plugins..)

second is this a better way? or it speeds up the workflow in such a matter, that the workaround with voltage modular becomes a PITA? the workaround in VM can be a great thing. i shall try it, i repeat.

but loading 15 instances (i think it will be 15 instances, because MPE, 15 channels, number 16 is used for overhead, i am quite new to MPE, so correct me if i am wrong.), i saw somewhere that someone did, it another way, i try to find.

don't get me wrong, it is a great plugin (and from a fellow countryman...). it seems implemented quite nice.
didn't demo it.

and: i don't feel that i really need it. not all synths have to be MPE for me, it is nice, but not all synths, the way i work, need MPE, but of course, you only discover it as a great addition when it becomes MPE...

but still; a Kool Thing! good luck!
win 10 pro; cubase 10.5 pro, live 10 suite+push 2, reaper, reason 11 suite, bitwig studio 3, maschine mk3+jam, arturia V collection 7, korg collection, komplete 11 ultimate, softube modular, VM, meldaproduction etc.
https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

Cinebient
KVRAF
4838 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Post Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:58 am

Interesting. I wonder if it would be possible to allow chords to specific channels. So like Polymer (only for mac available).
So that 2 voices would go to channel 2 and 3 to channel 3 etc.
I like the idea of such a plug-in. I mean i already can do all this within my DAW and use several instances and let the midi input cycle trough them etc.
But having this within one plug-in is nice.
The intro price seem not bad for me but the truth is i also would not pay the full price for this and would live further with workarounds which gives the same results.

Noumena
KVRist
206 posts since 4 May, 2019

Post Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:26 pm

Crashes on scan in Bitwig, over and over.

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