KNIFONIUM synth released

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
194 posts since 9 Jun, 2019 from Brisbane Australia

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:11 pm

Is there some tricks to getting a more typical smooth mono/legato or retrigger mode out of this synth? No matter what I try, it always feels a bit clunky to play in mono.

KVRAF
4522 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:19 pm

the velocity is not coming from the vsti. it's coming from your controller.

KVRist
177 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:24 pm

zoidkirb wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:11 pm
Is there some tricks to getting a more typical smooth mono/legato or retrigger mode out of this synth? No matter what I try, it always feels a bit clunky to play in mono.
partly to do with notes not triggering until previous notes are released, and partly to do with there being no way (that I can see) to link velocity to glide duration. Orchestral libraries for instance are often set to do portamento at low velocities up to a fast legato transition at higher velocities.

Well, except velocity is has a corresponding midi CC so just link that CC# to the glide parameter and you're probably good to go. I'm about to do that now. But the way it handles new notes is still weird

I'm sort of having second thoughts about this synth especially after watching the video, I'm paying a ton of attention to gain staging AND I DIDN'T NOTICE the stereo knob lol, even though I knew it had been added to the synth. It's sounding pretty good... But I'm still testing

KVRist
194 posts since 9 Jun, 2019 from Brisbane Australia

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:27 am

Thanks for the answers. I tried fixing the velocity from the DAW and experimented with the envelopes further and got slightly better results. In the end though I realised you gotta select Unison On, and more than 1 voice to get the smooth Retriggering I want.

KVRist
177 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:14 am

Dang, I hate to concede but I'm actually starting to get some sweet patches out of it, definitely a way different beast than Vacuum Pro with its own sound entirely. I just banged out a couple of presets and accidentally found myself having a great time and making sounds I was really enjoying, so long as I can remember upon loading it up again to re-route mixer VCO 1+2 to modwheel...

...okay. Say what you want about emulation accuracy but seriously, in 2021, it would just be in fact better to have a Kilohearts-style modulation system built into literally anything that makes sound. Why can't I just freely route this stuff in the synth so it stays? Route whatever I want to modwheel, load up 4 more LFOs and set their parameters and route them how I want? Yeah I can do it all in the DAW, but then I have to do it every time I load the patch in a new project. "It ruins the spirit of the synth..." Yeah, sure. Well actually it doesn't. Having to take 4x as long to do something ruins the spirit of the synth. If you want some red-tinted shades they sell those, or you can pay $17,000 for the real thing, or else we should just make software work as if it's actually 2021 or something

rant over

I think I'm buying this by the way

EDIT: Glad I gave it a second chance, honestly. Once it clicked it really started paying off, definitely made some sounds I am already using. I still haven't fully understood how the internal routing works (i.e. I constantly forget where FM controls are for modulator>target, frequently forget what VCA means and basically have made 0 use of the envelopes etc) but yes, now I own it.
Last edited by E_Anderson on Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

KVRAF
28834 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:30 am

The question is: Why doesn't the VST specification allow for stuff like this? It would be really nice to have something like in Reason, you click on a button to turn the VST around, and have modulation inputs, for about everything, and the DAW has modulators like Bitwig.

I know, that's kind of light speed in comparison with how audio software, and its formats develop. Let's hope that, one day, all that will be possible.

Anyway, regarding this, it's an emulation, and they wanted to stick to the layout of the original. Enough said about that really.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
4132 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:37 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:30 am
The question is: Why doesn't the VST specification allow for stuff like this? It would be really nice to have something like in Reason, you click on a button to turn the VST around, and have modulation inputs, for about everything, and the DAW has modulators like Bitwig.

I know, that's kind of light speed in comparison with how audio software, and its formats develop. Let's hope that, one day, all that will be possible.
it's possible in Logic (AU) to assign ANY automatable parameter to external MIDI FX.
The issue is that audio-rate modulation flies out the window - if that is necessary.
I don't really think thats a VST limitation, if the synth has parameters exposed to automation - you can modulate them with midi in most DAWs.
Image

KVRist
177 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:38 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:30 am
I know, that's kind of light speed in comparison with how audio software, and its formats develop. Let's hope that, one day, all that will be possible.
No, I think it is a very sensible goal by now. It doesn't even need to hurt the UX: literally make it like kilohearts, just click-to-add-a-modulator-of-your-choice with good modulation options that you can route how you want. Can we at least get Unfiltered Audio to "fix" Knifonium's plugin with their modulation system? Even Oberhausen's modulation makes way more sense, and I've literally spent 30 seconds with that synth before deciding to scrap testing bx_Obi in favor of buying the Knif, getting some sleep and letting Diva/Zebra handle my non-Knifonium desires for a future synth purchase (I don't think I'm really ever going to need Oberhausen with something like Diva)
Ploki wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:37 am
it's possible in Logic (AU) to assign ANY automatable parameter to external MIDI FX.
The issue is that audio-rate modulation flies out the window - if that is necessary.
I don't really think thats a VST limitation, if the synth has parameters exposed to automation - you can modulate them with midi in most DAWs.
The issue for me comes to patch re-use, not to mention it saves time when done from inside the plugin. Like if you do it with DAW midi modulation, that doesn't get saved with the patch, and generally when I save a preset I'm saving it to be played a certain way/have certain "macros" be automatable right off the bat (ex. modulating VCO1+2 + Filter freq in the mixer simultaneously using CC#1, but instead it could be macro 1 and save me the time of re-routing that when I first load the patch in a project )
Last edited by E_Anderson on Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
28834 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:45 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:37 am
chk071 wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:30 am
The question is: Why doesn't the VST specification allow for stuff like this? It would be really nice to have something like in Reason, you click on a button to turn the VST around, and have modulation inputs, for about everything, and the DAW has modulators like Bitwig.

I know, that's kind of light speed in comparison with how audio software, and its formats develop. Let's hope that, one day, all that will be possible.
it's possible in Logic (AU) to assign ANY automatable parameter to external MIDI FX.
The issue is that audio-rate modulation flies out the window - if that is necessary.
I don't really think thats a VST limitation, if the synth has parameters exposed to automation - you can modulate them with midi in most DAWs.
You're right, if your DAW has such modulators, that's an option.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
177 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:48 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:45 am
You're right, if your DAW has such modulators, that's an option.
Most do, it's just a matter of how much time/how many inputs it takes. I'm actually half-blessed by being in FL Studio because I can save the preset inside of a patcher, route the relevant parameters to whatever internal controllers (all in one for instance in the previous example) and then modulate that at the click of a button. But then, I've saved a preset for Knifonium essentially as its own plugin, meaning that's going to be on my menu of plugins every time lol (but if multiple patches use the same routing - then hey!)

KVRAF
28834 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:34 am

One issue I see is triggering envelopes or phase triggered LFO's. Unless there is also a way to do that (in Bitwig probably :)).
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
345 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:26 pm

The problem with trying to modulate/automate Knifonium is there's serious lag that makes it basically not worth doing. It doesn't even respond to pitch bend in real time. Everything is significantly delayed. Doesn't seem like something that will ever get fixed.
Stormchild

KVRAF
4132 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:39 pm

Lag diminishes if you switch to higher sampling rates.
Been talking about that since release
Image

KVRist
177 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:59 pm

Ploki wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:39 pm
Lag diminishes if you switch to higher sampling rates.
Been talking about that since release
I saw, and I was kind of hoping since those months ago that it had been addressed alongside the aliasing. Honestly the lag I can deal with, thankfully, as running it at 44.1khz already demolishes my CPU. This + a Sonsig + Realphones and it’s toast (2010 dual core life)

That being said I’m actually really enjoying using this synth a lot, a lot more than I initially was. It sounds anywhere from flutey to tortured which gives a lot of room for dark & sweet up to roaring leads + chords, and the transitional space there is so organic sounding compared to my other software. Boards of Canada like crazy for me.

KVRist
177 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:47 am

So knifonium can apparently make flutes when you're actually trying to make a boards of canada patch. Like flutes to a greater degree than I previously thought.

https://soundcloud.com/user-612480984/a ... e-kvraudio

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