One Synth Challenge #138: Surge (MrKarolus Wins!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Leonard Bowman
KVRist
122 posts since 4 Jul, 2018 from North Carolina, United States of America

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:38 am

MalToné wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:24 pm
@Leonard Bowman
... But I'm curious, say if you listened to music or compose with non-traditional tunings like 34edo or others, can you recognize them when you hear them as you might learn to recognize chord types or intervals in more traditional harmony? I suppose that you would since microtonal and alternate tunings have been around for centuries and are just considered "normal" if that's what' you learn and play.

Some people are said to have perfect pitch, but if pitch and octave division is a cultural or aesthetic construct, do people with perfect pitch hear unfamiliar tuning systems as something horribly out of tune, or do they just hear it and appreciate it for what it is?
If anything, I've gotten worse at identifying whether or not something is in 12edo since diving into microtonality over the past 2 years. :shrug:
Most of the theory of 12edo still works in other tunings - you just have more intervals and chord possibilities. I didn't use too much out of the ordinary in this piece, but I can recognize some of the "new" intervals. Many still go over my head or just sound bad to me at the moment. Other times, I perceive the tuning as a part of the timbre - like in my OSC 129 piece.

I think the perfect pitch thing depends on the individual - Jacob Collier famously has perfect pitch and sings outside of 12edo in much of his music. Others might find it strange.
Just my 2^(2/1200)

functionform
KVRian
548 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:19 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:36 am
The filter code is over 10 years old, you shouldn't expect Diva level quality out of it since it's a basic biquad with some clever tricks to make it accept a bit faster modulations (since Surge's LFOs go to 500-ish Hz).

As for unison, yeah this is not Dune 3. :) But also if you wanted stereo unison, you need to use L-R or Wide filter configuration. Or are you talking about detuning offsets?
The unison detune really frustrated me, it just felt very easy to wash out or end up with beating. I think giving a stereo option there might make that easier to manage. A random phase option might also be nice (no need for D3 hah), and I used drift for that purpose too. I found increasing drift and a lowering detune/voices got me closer to what I was going for there . Also, thank you btw a million times over for supporting and extending Surge, it's incredibly appreciated. Regardless of what I whine about, you guys have your backlog I'm sure and are working on it.

Re filters, your explanation makes sense, maybe bi-quad filters just don't sound like what I was going for (sort of like a snappy wap wap sound when you crank resonance) and I imagine its difficult to code up filter options to support super speedy lfos. I think an improved filter set would be huge for Surge even if it meant sacrificing some lfo speed (toggle maybe?) An effects refresh would also be nice, but not my priority.

Hopefully I don't sound negative on it - really my frustration is probably with Bitwig and even then it's probably because I'm still learning it. Like I said somewhere else I can totally see using Surge side by side with pro synths and effects.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
4705 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:41 am

Leonard Bowman wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:38 am
(quote from soundcloud...)
If you don't mind me asking, how did you create this scale? I'm always looking for new approaches to scale and harmony building and you've created a lovely one here.
I made a Max patch long time ago to explore all these ratios and I am mainly interested in prime ratios. To create a .scl was dead easy according to the Scala page...
I made two scala files, one with just overtones the other was used and implements overtones and undertones. The fourth just sound way more familiar with that...; - )
Base note is C...
These files can be opened in any text editor. I made them on a Mac...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
20328 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:54 am

functionform wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:19 am
The unison detune really frustrated me, it just felt very easy to wash out or end up with beating. I think giving a stereo option there might make that easier to manage.
Stereo options already exist - it's the filter configuration parameter!
functionform wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:19 am
A random phase option might also be nice
Phases are already randomized for unison AFAIK.

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Darksynth FX
KVRist
183 posts since 15 May, 2016 from Vienna

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:12 am

Voted.

Leonard Bowman
KVRist
122 posts since 4 Jul, 2018 from North Carolina, United States of America

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:29 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:41 am
I made two scala files, one with just overtones the other was used and implements overtones and undertones. The fourth just sound way more familiar with that...; - )
Base note is C...
These files can be opened in any text editor. I made them on a Mac...
Thanks for sharing! I'm familiar with Scala but I'm always curious how other folks go about choosing intervals to work with. I find it interesting how you constrain it to (octave-reduced) strict harmonics or subharmonics of the fundamental - I might need to try something like that eventually.
Just my 2^(2/1200)

functionform
KVRian
548 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:50 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:54 am
Stereo options already exist - it's the filter configuration parameter!
Hm, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is that equivalent to per unison-voice "spread" like you'd see in other synths? Re: random phase - that surprises me because once I start adding unison voices, Surge has a subtle "b" attack sound that starts to emerge which tells me it's not quite random.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
20328 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:07 am

There's no adjustable stereo pan spread at the moment, but if you use the Wide filter configuration (last one), you will hear unison in full stereo. You can then use the Width slider in Output section to reduce the stereo width of the whole sound.

Regarding the "b" attack sound, I know what you mean. But try setting unison voices to say 9 then drop unison detune all the way down to 0. You will hear the attack does sound different on every note - proof that phases are randomized.

kanduvisla
KVRer
7 posts since 18 Aug, 2020

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:38 am

So much cool submissions. I've tried to join this challenge, but I thought my experiment was not up to it. To be honest, I've made a lot of music when I was younger (around 18/19), then life happened and now I'm 36 and trying to get back in touch with my creativity.

Now I read back this thread and see all kind of experiments were shared already. I also see a lot of cool additional plugins used that are really great, so it's very much learning for me as well.

So next OSC I'll definitely join.

functionform
KVRian
548 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:13 am

Never be afraid to share! If something has value to you, it's always interesting to get it out there and see what people think.

manthosdm
KVRer
4 posts since 2 May, 2015

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:47 am

Hey people! Umm... My song didn't appear in the Soundcloud playlist, is it natural? Should I wait one day or so?

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exponent1
KVRist
391 posts since 10 Nov, 2018 from India

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:58 am

manthosdm wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:47 am
Hey people! Umm... My song didn't appear in the Soundcloud playlist, is it natural? Should I wait one day or so?
The track that you had posted in your submission seems to be a private track, that's why it didn't show up in the playlist.

Please update your submission post with the public version of the track.

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vov4ik
KVRer
4 posts since 12 Jan, 2017

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:22 pm

All tracks scored!
Sinjar my favory track!

manthosdm
KVRer
4 posts since 2 May, 2015

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:56 pm

[/quote]

The track that you had posted in your submission seems to be a private track, that's why it didn't show up in the playlist.

Please update your submission post with the public version of the track.
[/quote]

Ok! It's done, I made it public. Sorry for the inconvenience... I hope people can vote for it...

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Taron
KVRAF
2697 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:16 pm

Awww, I can't believe I had to miss out on Surge once again... :bang:
...next time!

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