Synth vs preset packs = same price

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Jazzguitar
KVRist
131 posts since 3 Sep, 2005 from Venezuela

Post Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:12 am

Apart from the time factor when you need to go quickly and a good preset, either factory or third party, will help you get out of trouble, also the synthesizer itself plays a crucial role depending on how easy or difficult it is for modify or create new presets.

There are synthesizers that look like a big, friendly open door that invites you to tweak and create new sounds in a snap. While others scare you just thinking about it. I'm not supporting not reading the "f*** manual" but if you are very busy and have many synthesizers I wonder where you are going to get another parallel life and 100 hour days to learn them all. So, look for the easiest synth for you.

In that case third-party presets could be your savior.

But if budget is very tight, as in my case, what I have done is to patiently spend time whenever I can to learn the synthesis of my favorites while focus deeply on learn one or two at most that are my daily Swiss Army Knife synthesizers.

A friend of mine who is one of the preset designers for a very well known developer, and whom I admire very much, told me this year that the key is to learn that one synth that you love and USE the most in order to learn to do anything you want with it.

Knowing the basic ins and outs of synthesis on a general level is a great help in itself and will save you a lot of time when approaching a new synthesizer.
It's not infrequently I've heard a preset from an expensive bank that blows me away, but then when I decide to do it myself it turns out to be even better than that one!

Love your synthesizers as an extension of your imagination and your ideas! that's the best bank preset maker ever.
Session guitarist and music producer from Venezuela
One of my old demos: (Scarbee and Overloud)
https://bit.ly/3mDq0D3

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12719 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:32 pm

Jazzguitar wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:12 am
Apart from the time factor when you need to go quickly and a good preset, either factory or third party, will help you get out of trouble, also the synthesizer itself plays a crucial role depending on how easy or difficult it is for modify or create new presets.
The problem I encounter is that it can often take you much longer to find that preset than it would have if you'd just started from scratch and made it yourself, so I see it as a false economy. It would work OK if synths came with 64 presets but they all come with hundreds these days and it's easy to waste a whole evening just looking for that one preset you know is there somewhere.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, Olga, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

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DJErmac
KVRAF
1728 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:44 pm

BONES wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:32 pm
Jazzguitar wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:12 am
Apart from the time factor when you need to go quickly and a good preset, either factory or third party, will help you get out of trouble, also the synthesizer itself plays a crucial role depending on how easy or difficult it is for modify or create new presets.
The problem I encounter is that it can often take you much longer to find that preset than it would have if you'd just started from scratch and made it yourself, so I see it as a false economy. It would work OK if synths came with 64 presets but they all come with hundreds these days and it's easy to waste a whole evening just looking for that one preset you know is there somewhere.
The more I read your posts these days, the more you surprise me in a good way. 100% agreed.
This post is supposed to be non-agressive. Now please give me a broad smile. :ud:

Jazzguitar
KVRist
131 posts since 3 Sep, 2005 from Venezuela

Post Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:10 am

BONES wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:32 pm
Jazzguitar wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:12 am
Apart from the time factor when you need to go quickly and a good preset, either factory or third party, will help you get out of trouble, also the synthesizer itself plays a crucial role depending on how easy or difficult it is for modify or create new presets.
The problem I encounter is that it can often take you much longer to find that preset than it would have if you'd just started from scratch and made it yourself, so I see it as a false economy. It would work OK if synths came with 64 presets but they all come with hundreds these days and it's easy to waste a whole evening just looking for that one preset you know is there somewhere.
Yes, you got my thoughts perfectly! thanks. Also there is an important factor when looking for presets, and it is the way the synth or effect developer implements tools to classify and organize them into categories and families.

There are synthesizers that implement organized search tools that facilitate the task of finding what you are looking for in an ocean of presets.

There is no 100% effective way to find a preset totally suitable to your needs in the blink of an eye, unless you design it, either by modifying an existing one or from scratch, which I do very often but not always, since having my own custom preset database has been super useful.

Personally I really like the way u-he does it with Zebra, Diva and Hive, also Rob Papen, Pigments, Synthmaster, Thorn, some TONE2 synths and others that I don't remember. NOT perfect results always, but when you have tags and multiple references the searching task becomes easier, at least in my personal case, it is so, because for decades I usually spend free time whenever possible to classify sounds in my different synths, new or old, and that has helped me to have a super useful reference library. The rest is tweaking to fine tune the preset and make it fit my needs.

Many users devote infinite time with synthesizers going through thousands of presets, and don't take the trouble to classify and note the favorite ones, then in the work time complain about not finding the right preset or at least close to the needs.
Know and learn your synthesizer, spend time with it little by little, every day, organize your library while learning its synthesis, that is the real equilibrium to get the most out of it.
Session guitarist and music producer from Venezuela
One of my old demos: (Scarbee and Overloud)
https://bit.ly/3mDq0D3

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12719 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:34 pm

Jazzguitar wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:10 am
There is no 100% effective way to find a preset totally suitable to your needs in the blink of an eye, unless you design it, either by modifying an existing one or from scratch, which I do very often but not always, since having my own custom preset database has been super useful.
Yeah but look at all the work you have to put into it so that it works for you. It's more time you could have spent making music that you have instead spent in a spreadsheet. What I tend to do is go through and mark presets I think might be useful at some point, but if an instrument has more than a couple of hundred presets, I'll inevitably lose the will to live before I get half-way through and literally never find out what is there. Usually I just resave a patch into the User folder with our "Nk_" prefix added to the file name. If they have a star rating system, I might leave them where they are and mark bass patches with one star, strings with two, pads with three and leads with four. But it's all extra work that isn't making music and it generally annoys the shit out of me.

What I notice, too, is that I always end up with a few variations on the same basic themes so once I go through and mark out patches, I'll go back and cull them down to less than a dozen, which I'll use as starting points from then on.
Personally I really like the way u-he does it with Zebra, Diva and Hive
Hive is easily the most impressive I've come across. I particularly like being able to assign colours.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, Olga, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

Jazzguitar
KVRist
131 posts since 3 Sep, 2005 from Venezuela

Post Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:49 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:34 pm
Jazzguitar wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:10 am
There is no 100% effective way to find a preset totally suitable to your needs in the blink of an eye, unless you design it, either by modifying an existing one or from scratch, which I do very often but not always, since having my own custom preset database has been super useful.
Yeah but look at all the work you have to put into it so that it works for you. It's more time you could have spent making music that you have instead spent in a spreadsheet. What I tend to do is go through and mark presets I think might be useful at some point, but if an instrument has more than a couple of hundred presets, I'll inevitably lose the will to live before I get half-way through and literally never find out what is there. Usually I just resave a patch into the User folder with our "Nk_" prefix added to the file name. If they have a star rating system, I might leave them where they are and mark bass patches with one star, strings with two, pads with three and leads with four. But it's all extra work that isn't making music and it generally annoys the shit out of me.

What I notice, too, is that I always end up with a few variations on the same basic themes so once I go through and mark out patches, I'll go back and cull them down to less than a dozen, which I'll use as starting points from then on.
Personally I really like the way u-he does it with Zebra, Diva and Hive
Hive is easily the most impressive I've come across. I particularly like being able to assign colours.
Yes, I agree almost in everything, you have a power of analysis that surprises me positively more and more! lucky to have you in this forum.

Although it can be applied to many, that assumption fortunately is not true for me, besides the fact that no one can know how I manage my time.

It is similar to wrongly asserting that because a forum member posts a lot here for example, then I should state that he/she has no time to make music.

Nowadays, we should not generalize, because it is very difficult to know exactly the dynamics and working method for each person. While there are many who spend too much time for example searching or designing presets, there are others who can realize multiple activity with reasonable proficiency

Personally, my activity with cataloging, classify and designing presets, sounds, samples, etc goes hand in hand and is usually linked to an almost uncontrollable music creation impulse, since I held simultaneously my first instruments in my hands, guitar and piano in my 13's.

As an example, I participated in Saurus3's recent TONE2 demo song contest, and won second place, a total surprise for me because I'm not really an expert in creating commercial EDM or strictly techno electronic music, but I grew up with a guitar in one hand and a synthesizer in the other. So today I'm not a total stranger to electronic music.

The fact is that almost 70% of the presets I used in my six submitted Saurus demos are my own custom designed while simultaneously I was creating music with them. That's my personal workflow dynamic and it has worked an entire life for me.

BTW, it's a pleasure to share my demos, I hope you like them, I listen to criticisms ...but don't let them hurt too much LOL!! :box:

https://archive.org/details/Saurus3_demo_tracks_by_cea
Session guitarist and music producer from Venezuela
One of my old demos: (Scarbee and Overloud)
https://bit.ly/3mDq0D3

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rod_zero
KVRAF
3268 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO

Post Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:54 pm

I have been careful when buying presets, mostly from people like The unfinished and ModeAudio which are quite good and well made, but even then I end with a lot I don't use so I have been focusing in programming more myself.
dedication to flying

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12719 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:53 pm

Jazzguitar wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:49 pm
Yes, I agree almost in everything, you have a power of analysis that surprises me positively more and more! lucky to have you in this forum.
You must be new because you can get into a lot of trouble around here with talk like that.
Although it can be applied to many, that assumption fortunately is not true for me, besides the fact that no one can know how I manage my time.
Sure, I was in no way being critical, simply pointing out that trying to work through lots of presets can be very time-consuming, when a lot of people probably think it is saving them time. But it's about saving time when it matters and making the time to get organised is definitely beneficial in the long run. Still, I'd prefer not to have to deal with it at all.
Personally, my activity with cataloging, classify and designing presets, sounds, samples, etc goes hand in hand and is usually linked to an almost uncontrollable music creation impulse, since I held simultaneously my first instruments in my hands, guitar and piano in my 13's.
I have a thing with making song lists. I love it. I sweat bullets over the order of the songs on our albums and spend weeks obsessing over it. When we're looking to start gigging, I'll spend countless hours making dozens of song lists, then trying them out to see how they flow form song to song. I think I probably enjoy that more than any aspect of production and coming up with the perfect song list is almost as satisfying to me as performing a new song for the first time.
BTW, it's a pleasure to share my demos, I hope you like them, I listen to criticisms ...but don't let them hurt too much LOL!! :box:

https://archive.org/details/Saurus3_demo_tracks_by_cea
Cool, I'll check 'em out when I get home tonight. If they are EDM, I'll probably hate 'em but that can't be helped.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, Olga, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

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digitalboytn
KVRAF
2307 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Post Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:42 pm

Jazzguitar wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:49 pm

BTW, it's a pleasure to share my demos, I hope you like them, I listen to criticisms ...but don't let them hurt too much LOL!! :box:

https://archive.org/details/Saurus3_demo_tracks_by_cea
Hi Jazz Guitar...

I really like the sound and the "feel" of your demos....

Great stuff !

I was a jazz guitar major,so I enjoy the tonal colours in your music..

It's all good,but the HY-Poly Demo 2 where you get to stretch out on the guitar solo is particularly nice...

It's always fun to have a blast over some changes :tu:

Stay safe and enjoy the ride...
No auto tune and iLok free...

twal
KVRist
259 posts since 10 Feb, 2017

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:12 am

Which synths come with the most presets, and which preset packs contain the most presets.
I am asking this for paid synths not free unless Surge and excluding Spire and Synthmaster(one).
I don't care the musical style.

Jazzguitar
KVRist
131 posts since 3 Sep, 2005 from Venezuela

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:42 am

digitalboytn wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:42 pm
Jazzguitar wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:49 pm

BTW, it's a pleasure to share my demos, I hope you like them, I listen to criticisms ...but don't let them hurt too much LOL!! :box:

https://archive.org/details/Saurus3_demo_tracks_by_cea
Hi Jazz Guitar...

I really like the sound and the "feel" of your demos....

Great stuff !

I was a jazz guitar major,so I enjoy the tonal colours in your music..

It's all good,but the HY-Poly Demo 2 where you get to stretch out on the guitar solo is particularly nice...

It's always fun to have a blast over some changes :tu:

Stay safe and enjoy the ride...
Thanks so much! :tu: Jazz guitar major? :o I like it and at the same time got my curiousity, any testimonial recordings out there that you can share?
It's always fun to have a blast over some changes :tu:
Yes, in HY-Poly Demo 2 I released some of that fusion that binds me forever in my music. Tadashi (HY-POLY master mind) is a fantastic and open minded person, he knows how to appreciate music in various directions without demanding clichés for my demos.

I love that about synth developers too like TONE2 (on the top!!) and some others like Psychic Modulation, Rob Papen(one forever fav), u-he, Synapse-Audio, Sugar Bytes and few others. Their tools open horizons, and the limitations are only in us.

I also love to plays synth lines and soloing, as I learned piano at the same time as guitar four decades ago.

And in my time I had a band that played material by Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Edgar Winter (Frankenstein), Camel, Focus, Yes, George Benson, Cesar Camargo Mariano, Pat Metheny, Gino Vanelli, Wheather Report, Charlie Parker, Uzeb, Brecker Brothers, Ivan Lins, Azymuth, George Duke, ink Floyd, Deep. Purple, Thelonius Monk, Hermeto Pascoal, Oscar Castro Neves and some more that escape my memory at the moment.

In this other Saurus 3 demo included in the ones I sent there is a sample of both, the first solo is with my Godin xtSA guitar (Roland synth) and in the B part of the track in 7/8 I did a synth solo in pure fusion style and in real time, like in the old days. Both solos with great sounds designed/modified with Saurus 3. Hope you like it.

Saurus Forest - Saurus 3 demo (Latin jazz style)
https://ia801503.us.archive.org/2/items ... MOSONG.mp3




Cheers!
Session guitarist and music producer from Venezuela
One of my old demos: (Scarbee and Overloud)
https://bit.ly/3mDq0D3

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Gercek_KV331
KVRist
170 posts since 8 Oct, 2014 from Turkey

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:03 pm

twal wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:12 am
Which synths come with the most presets, and which preset packs contain the most presets.
I am asking this for paid synths not free unless Surge and excluding Spire and Synthmaster(one).
I don't care the musical style.
Hi,
Synthmaster 2 comes with 1800 Factory Presets. This is a truly remarkable number.
All the best
Gercek

Catharsis Cat
KVRer
28 posts since 14 Nov, 2018 from Maryland

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:06 am

I definitely agree with the above sentiment that complexity plays a big role. With a vst with lots of synthesis types and parameters, I feel like a pro sound designer is much better able to take care of . If it's a synth designed to be easy and fast wo work with, presets feel less nessecary.

Also if you're buying a vst solely for more presets to use, and don't plan on making your own, a preset pack for a synth you have that gives you the exact sounds you want may be better.

Of course the drawback of both approaches is the same, more stuff than you can feasibly use that might be a distraction. I don't think it's that much a difference whether your stuck on what preset or what synth to use.

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LeVzi
KVRAF
4072 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:32 pm

There is no harm in using presets and tbh i've gone from making all my own patches to using presets almost exclusively. The time I save from not making the "perfect" patch (Remember that's subjective and only you can decide when the patch is good enough, which is why it can take ages) is so much I can actually make more music.

But as for the OP about preset packs being the same price as the synth, no that's where I agree. preset packs are just presets, yes they take a lot of work but not as much as making the synth in the first place. I think realism helps in pricing of preset packs, and the odd sale works too, I dont mind waiting for sales for packs at all . I can live without for now.

Did this topic start before or after Spectrasonics released the extensions, I didn't look at the date of the OP.

EDIT : Last year ,so wasnt prompted by that then.
"T!ts McGee"

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Biome_Digital
KVRAF
1660 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:06 pm

Full Synth price vs. full sound bank price? Not fair to include sales and discounts.

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