Komplete 13, ladies and gents

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
loachm
KVRAF
2147 posts since 2 Jan, 2003 from right here...

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:45 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:36 pm
chk071 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:44 am
Massive X isn't Massive 2, it's a completely different synth.
Yes. The original Massive actually had a well designed GUI.
...yup, they've made some really questionable UI/UX decisions for MX. Such an incredible sound, but very annoying to use. Well, but that might help selling expansions. :D

Lucastyle
KVRist
102 posts since 5 Sep, 2011

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:17 am

loachm wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:45 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:36 pm
chk071 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:44 am
Massive X isn't Massive 2, it's a completely different synth.
Yes. The original Massive actually had a well designed GUI.
...yup, they've made some really questionable UI/UX decisions for MX. Such an incredible sound, but very annoying to use. Well, but that might help selling expansions. :D
The expansion point is accurate as they are already marketing it as a preset machine bundle in it with some for their sales :lol:

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
3106 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:56 am

Lucastyle wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:17 am
The expansion point is accurate as they are already marketing it as a preset machine bundle in it with some for their sales :lol:
I'm an MX doubter, not so much on the UI but the fact that I've never heard a sound from it I've loved. Just seems cold and sterile to me, but on paper there's no reason for that to be and I'm hoping to be proved wrong over time.

If they ever get a browser at a basic level half as good as the old Massive and some great presets, it could be a gateway drug for me - has there been any talk that a better browser is coming?

So strange with NI. So many great products, so many great coders and yet some bizarre anomalies like MX's browser from 2001 and Komplete Kontrol still being years behind the long defunct Kore Player.
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Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
8441 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:09 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:56 am
Lucastyle wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:17 am
The expansion point is accurate as they are already marketing it as a preset machine bundle in it with some for their sales :lol:
I'm an MX doubter, not so much on the UI but the fact that I've never heard a sound from it I've loved. Just seems cold and sterile to me, but on paper there's no reason for that to be and I'm hoping to be proved wrong over time.

If they ever get a browser at a basic level half as good as the old Massive and some great presets, it could be a gateway drug for me - has there been any talk that a better browser is coming?

So strange with NI. So many great products, so many great coders and yet some bizarre anomalies like MX's browser from 2001 and Komplete Kontrol still being years behind the long defunct Kore Player.
I think they just got too big and have been poorly managed, went for the easy money with constant expansions. And the most frustrating part is that they have made some really excellent stuff, especially Kore and Maschine. But it blows my mind how they take two steps back sometimes after a step forward. I've never seen a company throw something away only to start over with something worse (Kore -> Komplete Kontrol). Same could be said for at least some part of the Massive to Massive X evolution (Worse browser, no direct parameter automation, worse touch screen performance). I'm just waiting for a new Maschine 3.0 that destroys half of what I love about it.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

chk071
KVRAF
25596 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:41 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:56 am
Lucastyle wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:17 am
The expansion point is accurate as they are already marketing it as a preset machine bundle in it with some for their sales :lol:
I'm an MX doubter, not so much on the UI but the fact that I've never heard a sound from it I've loved. Just seems cold and sterile to me, but on paper there's no reason for that to be and I'm hoping to be proved wrong over time.
It's a bit colder sounding than Monark for example, that's for sure. You can definitely get warm tones out of it though, and, I wouldn't sign the "sterile" thing. It's anything else but sterile for me. There's a lot of subtle things going on, oscillator drift, mild saturation in the signal path, and you can get really wild with the filter gain, and feedback in the amp section as well. AND, I think one of its secret weapons is the voice randomization modulator. I really wished every synth would offer that. Makes things like subtle variations in the resonance amount, or envelope stages a breeze, which really can add to the sound (for example, you can get really close to that weird filter resonance sound of Oberheim synth, where, obviously, the resonance amount, and filter envelope stages vary slightly with every voice you play).

So, yeah, I'd agree that it isn't the super warmest synth I ever heard, but, there's plenty of options to make it sound warm as well, unlike with other synths which are really hard to "warm up". ;)
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

dayjob
KVRian
1478 posts since 6 Nov, 2006

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:26 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 am
dayjob wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:04 pm
mabian wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:52 pm
Scotty wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:37 pm
Interesting but perhaps unsurprising that NI / Universal Audio (given their influence on the market) get to release new products using the old VST2 SDK . I thought mistakenly that VST3 was the only option for new plugins. I am likely very misinformed. Anyone care to educate me on this?
I think Steinberg does not distribute the VST2 SDK to new devs.
But devs that already have it can use it for new plugins as well.

Me thinks... :)

- Mario
yes. this is why Plasmonic will not have a VST2 version. his company is new and Steinberg would not let him access the VST2 dev kit. only VST3

https://rhizomatic.xyz/index.php/plasmonic/

Actually AFAIK you can still build VST2s with VST3 SDK.
not according to rhizomatic. shrug. he sent an email update about it a while ago. perhaps he'll discover the vst2 process w/the VST3 SDK

JerGoertz
KVRAF
2974 posts since 20 Feb, 2004

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:58 am

dayjob wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:26 am
EvilDragon wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 am
Actually AFAIK you can still build VST2s with VST3 SDK.
not according to rhizomatic. shrug. he sent an email update about it a while ago. perhaps he'll discover the vst2 process w/the VST3 SDK
I believe this is true, Steinberg's whole point in discontinuing new VST2 developer's licenses was to force people to develop for VST3.

I actually have a VST2 developer's license that I'm not using at the moment (have just made some homemade MIDI plugins for personal use), and offered to see if Brian might be interested in some kind of transfer (if such is possible), but I didn't hear back from him.
A well-behaved signature.

loachm
KVRAF
2147 posts since 2 Jan, 2003 from right here...

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:12 am

chk071 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:41 am
I think one of its secret weapons is the voice randomization modulator.
...to be fair, the trigger random modulator in Massive can be used to produce similar results.

Following this thread has made me think about MX again. It's not, that it's a bad synth, but original Massive is so brilliant, because it combined a number of aspects from successful synths in a comprehensive, yet straight-forward package. MX, however, seems to try to make everything bigger and better, while, in fact, making things worse.

Best example is the new Performer. While the old one isn't as comprehensive, you can get interesting results very fast and, most importantly, it's fun to use. It is a brilliant simplification of a multi-stage envelope to create rythmic results. Crossfading between the two curves of one Performer module can end up in a funky jam-fest. And you can save your own curves. Both things not so easy or impossible with the new one and it's not as straight-forward to use. And I also don't see its point, as every major DAW's automation curve offers better editing tools, which I'd rather use than MX's performer. But I can't, since you can only automate the 16 macros and you have to set up things - cumbersome and annoying.

So, while MX tries to improve on the feature-side, it has worsened regarding the handling. Another thing is the multiple new ways to shape the waveform, but it only has one filter module. They did animations for the envelopes, but none for the clunky dual-filter type to get some visual feedback to understand, what's going on. The upper panel is cluttered with 11 modules with controls squeezed together, while the lower panel houses only three modules with the controls spread out. And the list goes on.

It has such a great sound and might have had so much potential. I used it quite a lot, when it came out, but the initial enthusiasm cooled down noticably after a while. Generally, disimproving and pipe dream are two words, that come to mind, when I think about it, and reading some other comments here suggest, that this doesn't apply to MX only.

machinesworking
KVRAF
2647 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:26 am

JerGoertz wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:58 am
I believe this is true, Steinberg's whole point in discontinuing new VST2 developer's licenses was to force people to develop for VST3.

I actually have a VST2 developer's license that I'm not using at the moment (have just made some homemade MIDI plugins for personal use), and offered to see if Brian might be interested in some kind of transfer (if such is possible), but I didn't hear back from him.
Honestly, ( and don't get me wrong, I 100% as of right now prefer VST2 over VST3, or AU, and obviously I'm on OS X ), the industry should move on. It's obvious Steinberg are fully committed to VST3, and developers have hated it, but in the end it's Steinberg's baby.

As of now VST 2 is more stable in general on my systems, but there's no inherent reason that VST 3 shouldn't be, and everyone going forward coding VST3 makes perfect sense.

JerGoertz
KVRAF
2974 posts since 20 Feb, 2004

Post Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:30 am

machinesworking wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:26 am
JerGoertz wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:58 am
I believe this is true, Steinberg's whole point in discontinuing new VST2 developer's licenses was to force people to develop for VST3.

I actually have a VST2 developer's license that I'm not using at the moment (have just made some homemade MIDI plugins for personal use), and offered to see if Brian might be interested in some kind of transfer (if such is possible), but I didn't hear back from him.
Honestly, ( and don't get me wrong, I 100% as of right now prefer VST2 over VST3, or AU, and obviously I'm on OS X ), the industry should move on. It's obvious Steinberg are fully committed to VST3, and developers have hated it, but in the end it's Steinberg's baby.

As of now VST 2 is more stable in general on my systems, but there's no inherent reason that VST 3 shouldn't be, and everyone going forward coding VST3 makes perfect sense.
I basically agree. Moving forward always has growing pains. As long as VST3 is intrinsically better but "does things differently" or otherwise just has some kinks to iron out.
A well-behaved signature.

zisser
KVRer
14 posts since 9 May, 2015

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:53 pm

Really impressed with Arkhis by Native Instruments and the other new orchestral or soundscape instruments the released recently. Planing more reviews.. but for now here is a quick overview and demo
https://youtu.be/grvpL_G_fig

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Peter_Wayne
KVRer
11 posts since 22 Mar, 2018

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:29 am

Tempted to upgrade from Komplete 11 Ultimate. Although to be honest, I don't really "need" any of the new additions. I was really disappointed with Symphony Essentials in 11 Ultimate (it's the worst sample library I own). Plus I really don't need anymore synths. But MX does seem pretty cool and would go great with many additional plugins on top. I guess the biggest selling point is everything you get across the board. Although maybe I'll wait for 14 or get 13 on sale. Not sure yet.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
8441 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:24 pm

I'm curious to hear the new cello. I will probably upgrade from K11U to 13 Collectors at the inevitable 50% off sale next year if those solo strings are sounding good.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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LoveEnigma18
KVRAF
2716 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:00 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:24 pm
I'm curious to hear the new cello. I will probably upgrade from K11U to 13 Collectors at the inevitable 50% off sale next year if those solo strings are sounding good.
If you can spend right now, just get the K12U CE Upgrade (from K8-11U) from Thomann. Register it before 1st October and get K13U CE for free. This is confirmed news. It's almost 50% deal and you do not need to wait too.
Never imagined we would get to play with toys in adulthood. :)

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LoveEnigma18
KVRAF
2716 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:03 pm

zisser wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:53 pm
Really impressed with Arkhis by Native Instruments and the other new orchestral or soundscape instruments the released recently. Planing more reviews.. but for now here is a quick overview and demo
https://youtu.be/grvpL_G_fig
Nice video, good presentation. :tu:

I think out of all the new cinematic/orchestral stuff, I will enjoy this the most when I get my hands on it soon.
Never imagined we would get to play with toys in adulthood. :)

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