Tal J-8

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
2036 posts since 4 Dec, 2011 from Brasília, Brazil

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:05 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:59 am
Well, different synth, but the Prophet developers confirmed in the Gearslutz thread that's exactly how the Prophet envelopes are designed to work. That's how Minimoog envelopes scale: 1-5 seconds covers a tiny range of decay. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the other American synth brand did the same thing. It would be easier for a developer to just scale the knob in a linear fashion versus doing something weird like that. So why do it? Makes sense to devote more of the knob to the most musically useful ranges.
I have a vague recollection of U-he doing some adjustments on Repro envelope scaling to make things easier to adjust.

KVRer
22 posts since 7 Apr, 2014

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:34 pm

rezoneight wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:58 pm
You sold a JP-8 in 2010 and replaced it with Komplete 7? Thats some pretty serious lack of good judgement. Yeah you're definitely full of shit. All kidding aside I find it highly dubious that your memory of the sound of that instrument from 11 years ago is enough to judge whether this plugin is accurate or not. The developer has an instrument at hand to compare with and you're telling us your memory from 11 years ago is better? Give me a break.
I also have about 3 hours worth of recordings of just me playing my 12-bit JP-8. But I don't listen to those while I am playing the software. I have listened to some of them since purchasing J-8. I am not going to tell you what my assessment is now(I'll only say that it has since changed) because clearly this is a trigger for some, and I am seeing people getting banned left and right, so I will simply answer your first question.

I sold the JP-8 I owned because it is a real instrument. It beckons you to play it, but I cannot play well. I prefer to explore sounds. I did that to my fulfillment with it. It eventually became neglected. New frontiers awaited with Reaktor, Kontakt libraries, Massive and more. It also paid off a formidable amount of debt I needed to take care of. Yes, I am an asshole with an opinion, so what. Why am I even posting an opinion on this forum? Clearly people only want to be told what they want to hear.

KVRer
22 posts since 7 Apr, 2014

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:51 pm

I created a dropbox fileshare link so anyone can make a comparison themselves.

JP8 2009 zw

The two demo flac files were compiled from clips made in January of 2009 and represent what I liked about playing the JP-8 as a keyboard instrument.
The pads folder contains 18 recordings each with 4 iterations of the same sound: first is dry, second run through a Boss CE-300 chorus, third through a Lexicon MPX reverb, fourth through both chorus and reverb.

KVRist
248 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:04 am

zwhita wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:45 pm
Dencheg wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:08 pm
What on Mars does this number mean at all?
Scientific analysis has no credible domain in my assessment, as surely you have guessed, but I appreciate you covertly implying that I am full of sh!t.
I didn't imply anything. I was making a "Sheldon-style joke", but joke nevertheless. To make it explicit: I'm not a condescending pr!ck

KVRist
31 posts since 8 Oct, 2016

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:21 am

zwhita wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:51 pm
I created a dropbox fileshare link so anyone can make a comparison themselves.

JP8 2009 zw

The two demo flac files were compiled from clips made in January of 2009 and represent what I liked about playing the JP-8 as a keyboard instrument.
The pads folder contains 18 recordings each with 4 iterations of the same sound: first is dry, second run through a Boss CE-300 chorus, third through a Lexicon MPX reverb, fourth through both chorus and reverb.
Thanks for posting up. I'm super slow at deconstructing and working backwards from existing patches, so I will try to have a go at these at some point. I've also got a Roland Super Jupiter rack being delivered tomorrow, so can post up some audio files of that if needed as well.

User avatar
KVRist
459 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:52 pm

zwhita wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:34 pm
rezoneight wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:58 pm
You sold a JP-8 in 2010 and replaced it with Komplete 7? Thats some pretty serious lack of good judgement. Yeah you're definitely full of shit. All kidding aside I find it highly dubious that your memory of the sound of that instrument from 11 years ago is enough to judge whether this plugin is accurate or not. The developer has an instrument at hand to compare with and you're telling us your memory from 11 years ago is better? Give me a break.
I also have about 3 hours worth of recordings of just me playing my 12-bit JP-8. But I don't listen to those while I am playing the software. I have listened to some of them since purchasing J-8. I am not going to tell you what my assessment is now(I'll only say that it has since changed) because clearly this is a trigger for some, and I am seeing people getting banned left and right, so I will simply answer your first question.

I sold the JP-8 I owned because it is a real instrument. It beckons you to play it, but I cannot play well. I prefer to explore sounds. I did that to my fulfillment with it. It eventually became neglected. New frontiers awaited with Reaktor, Kontakt libraries, Massive and more. It also paid off a formidable amount of debt I needed to take care of. Yes, I am an asshole with an opinion, so what. Why am I even posting an opinion on this forum? Clearly people only want to be told what they want to hear.
The first part about JP-8 sold for Komplete was a joke, I don't give a damn what people do with their money as everyone lives their own life. I've sold instruments to pay off debt in the past too. Sometimes other stuff comes first.

I have zero investment in whether J-8 is exactly like a real Jupiter-8. That said the developer has an actual instrument he's basing it off of and has done fantastic work in the past. And as I've said both on this site and others: given that none of these instruments ever sounded exactly alike (Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran has three and has noted in an interview that none of them sound exactly alike), and certainly are going to sound different from aging of components, the VST is only going to sound as good as whatever the developer had access to. The character of the Jupiter-8 is certainly there in this instrument and the Roland Cloud version and the new Arturia one, which to me at least, is what's important.

KVRAF
27212 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:57 pm

rezoneight wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:52 pm
And as I've said both on this site and others: given that none of these instruments ever sounded exactly alike (Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran has three and has noted in an interview that none of them sound exactly alike), and certainly are going to sound different from aging of components, the VST is only going to sound as good as whatever the developer had access to.
I don't doubt that there are subtle differences between different models, but, frankly, I believe people are making a bit too much of those differences. I'm pretty sure every Jupiter-8 sounds like... a Jupiter-8. There may be subtle differences in the parameter ranges, resonance amount, in general of the calibration of the parameters. I'm pretty sure none of those Jupiter-8's sounds like a Minimoog though...
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

User avatar
KVRist
459 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:24 pm

chk071 wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:57 pm
rezoneight wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:52 pm
And as I've said both on this site and others: given that none of these instruments ever sounded exactly alike (Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran has three and has noted in an interview that none of them sound exactly alike), and certainly are going to sound different from aging of components, the VST is only going to sound as good as whatever the developer had access to.
I don't doubt that there are subtle differences between different models, but, frankly, I believe people are making a bit too much of those differences. I'm pretty sure every Jupiter-8 sounds like... a Jupiter-8. There may be subtle differences in the parameter ranges, resonance amount, in general of the calibration of the parameters. I'm pretty sure none of those Jupiter-8's sounds like a Minimoog though...
Totally but thats my point. There is no "exact" even in the (aging) hardware. And these VSTs sound like what they're supposed to sound like. Repro sounds like my Pro-One, not like a Minimoog ;)

KVRist
57 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:34 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:01 pm
Aural memory is not really a perfect thing either :)
Neither is memory of pain; otherwise we would all be only children...

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

9971 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:51 am

For full transparency:
It appears that @arashi was correct about the arp in J-8 not fully behaving like the real Jupiter 8's arp.

I found this video (go to 2:39 if the link doesn't go their automatically for you) of the Jupiter 8 which I couldn't replicate the arp pattern in J-8 and sent it to Patrick who said indeed his Jupiter 8 behaved like the video.

https://youtu.be/wOBCvpOkdoc?t=159




He will make changes to allow the correct Arp playing of the Jupiter 8.

rsp
sound sculptist

KVRist
247 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:00 am

zvenx wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:51 am
He will make changes to allow the correct Arp playing of the Jupiter 8.
Excellent. This may seem like nitpicking, but I think at least some people will find the arp more fun and musical this way.

The clip in that video does not clearly show the full behavior though. Need to hold at least three notes to see how it works. With the arp set to at least 2 octaves, holding C, G, D, and E (all in the same octave), pressing them in that order and holding them down. It should repeat that exact sequence in each octave.

Here’s a thing I made using only the Jupiter-8 arp (on the System-8):
https://soundcloud.com/stormchild/sunrise
Stormchild

User avatar
KVRAF
21230 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:29 am

That sounded terrific :)

User avatar
KVRAF

Topic Starter

9971 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:21 am

Arashi wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:00 am
zvenx wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:51 am
He will make changes to allow the correct Arp playing of the Jupiter 8.
Excellent. This may seem like nitpicking, but I think at least some people will find the arp more fun and musical this way.

The clip in that video does not clearly show the full behavior though. Need to hold at least three notes to see how it works. With the arp set to at least 2 octaves, holding C, G, D, and E (all in the same octave), pressing them in that order and holding them down. It should repeat that exact sequence in each octave.

Here’s a thing I made using only the Jupiter-8 arp (on the System-8):
https://soundcloud.com/stormchild/sunrise
Thanks. I am with ED that really sounded good.
But I once again encourage you to email him, even if it is for the rest of us.
You will do a better job of explaining it than I could.
rsp
sound sculptist

KVRist
384 posts since 12 Sep, 2005 from NYC

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:32 am

zvenx wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:21 am
Arashi wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:00 am
zvenx wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:51 am
He will make changes to allow the correct Arp playing of the Jupiter 8.
Excellent. This may seem like nitpicking, but I think at least some people will find the arp more fun and musical this way.

The clip in that video does not clearly show the full behavior though. Need to hold at least three notes to see how it works. With the arp set to at least 2 octaves, holding C, G, D, and E (all in the same octave), pressing them in that order and holding them down. It should repeat that exact sequence in each octave.

Here’s a thing I made using only the Jupiter-8 arp (on the System-8):
https://soundcloud.com/stormchild/sunrise
Thanks. I am with ED that really sounded good.
But I once again encourage you to email him, even if it is for the rest of us.
You will do a better job of explaining it than I could.
rsp
+1 Yes please contact Patrick directly 👍
2012 Mac Pro,3.46GHz 12 core 96g ram,High Sierra,RME UCX, DP9.5.1 Great River ME-1NV,a few microphones,UAD2, K12U,U-he,Omni,many other VI's & plugins, Vdrums,Focal Twin 6 monitors, Shunyata.......

KVRist
180 posts since 2 May, 2007 from Swiss

Post Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:12 am

Thanks for the arp hint. We totally missed that. Thought it's the same like the Juno 60 has. I already changed this in our develop build except of one limitation:

The arp starts to reduce the range / skips notes if you play at higher notes. In the highest hardware keyboard octave the arp on the hardware has always the range 1. This way it limits the note range in the arp the the keyboard range.

Is this limitation useful or should we leave it?

Edit: I will do that. It's even more funny and unique :)
Last edited by ToguAudioLine on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Togu Audio Line
http://kunz.corrupt.ch/

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