bit of a rant about devs, and international sales....

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

1964 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:23 am

vurt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:38 am
chaosWyrM wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:43 pm
vurt wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:23 am
chaosWyrM wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:49 am
Urs wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:21 pm
chaosWyrM wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:48 pm
what do you do with the vat you collect from non eu customers?
It goes to the authorities that we (rather: our resellers) collect it for.
but they didnt collect it for anyone...it shouldn't have been collected at all.

which authorities are collecting vat from us customers? ive purchased some of your plugins...where did my vat money go? no one was asking for it, no one wanted it...so who did it get sent to, and how was that determined?
it gets sent to the tax collection authorities. if unclaimed it then gets sent to the eu, it is then spent on healthcare, infrastructure and the like, same as any taxation over here.
(obviously there are many things tax gets spent on, but i personally would like to thank you all for my free prescription :tu: )

all prices you see usually include vat, otherwise there would be two prices on a site.
they charge it as a matter of course, because as mentioned above, vpn makes it impossible to know where a customer is from.
so everyone gets charged
you being a us citizen then get in touch with the eu tax revenue folks, and at some distant point when they can be arsed, you will get a refund (seriously, they are slow as f**k when they owe you! bloody different when the shoe is on the other foot!)
that right there is a steaming pile of bs. what kind of backwards nonsense is that? i dont buy something from florida, pay florida sales tax on it and then have to go prove im from new york and try to get reimbursed from florida....all so i can then turn around and pay new york sales tax. ffs, thats lunacy.

vpns??? has no one in europe heard of billing/shipping addresses? you know...the ones that are part of the banking information you use when you pay for things online? people dont normally use a vpn when opening a bank account or getting a credit card....both of which require a real physical address (no po boxes or the like) AND a ss# or us taxpayer id #.

so...."we cant tell where youre from" a pretty lame excuse. we have 50 states and some territories here, each with their own (multiple) set(s) of tax laws....we manage to figure out how much taxes to charge people from other states without any trouble. this is something we literally never even think about here...its all taken care of behind the scenes.

i could understand if i was connecting to an eu site from the usa...but trying to pay with a cc from france or some shit...then maybe one might wonder about vpns...but if im connecting from the us...and have us bank information...whats the problem?


this is all moot anyway.

bottom line is that there are eu sites that have figured out how to remove vat for non eu customers. if one can...they all can.

:edit:

i didnt do anything to make "moot" a link...i dont even see a way to make it NOT a link.
that's how it is :shrug:
you can continue to complain or you can follow the (i agree annoying) rules :shrug:
neither me nor the dev can change it.

(the ones you buy that don't mention vat, they will still take a cut from the devs end, you still pay it)
but see thats the point.

thats NOT how it is...and the dev most certainly can change it. see again the "bottom line" above.
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KVRAF
27702 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:27 am

What you don't seem to understand, no matter how often it is repeated, is that the payment provider charges the VAT, not the developer, and that the developer also doesn't keep VAT, but has to discharge it.

Also, the solution already has been given a couple of times now. You just waste your and everyone else's time here.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

1964 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:27 am
What you don't seem to understand, no matter how often it is repeated, is that the payment provider charges the VAT, not the developer, and that the developer also doesn't keep VAT, but has to discharge it.

Also, the solution already has been given a couple of times now. You just waste your and everyone else's time here.
what you dont seem to understand, no matter how often its repeated is that not all eu sellers include vat. so apparently they do NOT have to collect it.

i dont care who charges it or who collects it or where it goes. none of that is relevant to the fact that no one should be charging it or collecting it at all in the first place. if the dev is using a payment provider that cant figure out how to remove the vat like other payment providers have figured out how to do then thats on them. get a better payment provider that knows what they are doing.

and if you feel im wasting your time...feel free to not read or respond here anymore. no one is twisting your arm to hear your sage wisdom you know.
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KVRAF
27702 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:39 am

Ok, so you are only here to rant. I thought that much, considering your posting history here, you seem to be one of the most stubborn people around here.

You've been told multiple times how to get your money back, if a shop with a payment provider which doesn't account to country specific differences charges VAT. So, this is all about your venting. I'm out of here, and leave you to your... well, I'm not even sure what it is really. Apart from a total waste of time, for everyone.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

1964 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:05 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:39 am
Ok, so you are only here to rant. I thought that much, considering your posting history here, you seem to be one of the most stubborn people around here.

You've been told multiple times how to get your money back, if a shop with a payment provider which doesn't account to country specific differences charges VAT. So, this is all about your venting. I'm out of here, and leave you to your... well, I'm not even sure what it is really. Apart from a total waste of time, for everyone.
oh...you figured out my post was a rant did you? wow...great detective work there sherlock...what gave it away? was it the use of the word "rant" in the subject heading? nothin' gets past you does it? and id have got away with it too if it werent for for you meddling kids!

yeah...and thanks for the personal attack there...seems about right for you, by your post history...you seem like a arrogant child. if you dont like my posts...dont read them....put me on ignore...whatever i dont give a shit. how dumb is it to expend all that energy and effort...and yes TIME to keep coming back here to repeatedly tell me im wasting your time. ffs bro...is there someone there with a gun to your head forcing you to clickity clack out your inane drivel?

i also dont give a shit about getting my money back...what kind of an idiot dumb ass would jump through all those hoops to maybe...someday...perhaps...possibly get some money back?

holy shit. wheres the tylenol?
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

1964 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:25 am

vurt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:38 am

(the ones you buy that don't mention vat, they will still take a cut from the devs end, you still pay it)
i forgot to address this.

call me crazy, but i dont think thats how math works.

i dont care that they take a cut that i dont see. what i care about is the total im paying. if they take x% off the top regardless of the amount...but the amount i payed is the amount it should be without vat...well then i didnt pay the extra vat did i?

if something costs 150 euros with vat...but its only $160 in my cart (or thereabouts)...then obv the vat has been removed since 150 euros is $181. if the payment provider takes a cut from that $160 and then applies it to a vat charge....what do i care? thats none of my business. thats the deal made between the dev and the payment provider...has nothing to do with me. all i know is i paid the listed price minus the vat charge....done and done.
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

1964 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:31 pm

well looky here. seems we found the impossible....hiding right under our noses in another thread:



vat.jpg




who wants to keep telling me they cant do it?
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Beware the Quoth
29305 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:47 pm

chaosWyrM wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am
what you dont seem to understand, no matter how often its repeated is that not all eu sellers include vat. so apparently they do NOT have to collect it.
I think you're missing the possibility that EU sellers DO have to collect it, but that some could be neglecting to actually do so.
John Titor died for your sins!

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addled muppet weed
76699 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:20 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:47 pm
chaosWyrM wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am
what you dont seem to understand, no matter how often its repeated is that not all eu sellers include vat. so apparently they do NOT have to collect it.
I think you're missing the possibility that EU sellers DO have to collect it, but that some could be neglecting to actually do so.
re your sig that ive just noticed...
if its the same person im thinking of, the only reasonable question is "when?" :hihi:

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Beware the Quoth
29305 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:29 pm

Well before he was actually born.
John Titor died for your sins!

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addled muppet weed
76699 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:32 pm

:lol:
yup, same guy!
legend!

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KVRian
1204 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:34 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:47 pm
chaosWyrM wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am
what you dont seem to understand, no matter how often its repeated is that not all eu sellers include vat. so apparently they do NOT have to collect it.
I think you're missing the possibility that EU sellers DO have to collect it, but that some could be neglecting to actually do so.
They won't, unless they desperately want to go to jail:

https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/blog/wha ... x-and-vat/

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Beware the Quoth
29305 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:37 pm

excuse me please wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:34 pm
whyterabbyt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:47 pm
chaosWyrM wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am
what you dont seem to understand, no matter how often its repeated is that not all eu sellers include vat. so apparently they do NOT have to collect it.
I think you're missing the possibility that EU sellers DO have to collect it, but that some could be neglecting to actually do so.
They won't, unless they desperately want to go to jail:
Yeah, you're right, companies dont do illegal stuff. :roll:
John Titor died for your sins!

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

1964 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:02 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:47 pm
chaosWyrM wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am
what you dont seem to understand, no matter how often its repeated is that not all eu sellers include vat. so apparently they do NOT have to collect it.
I think you're missing the possibility that EU sellers DO have to collect it, but that some could be neglecting to actually do so.
except the devs themselves arent the ones doing it. we have already established that they use 3rd party payment services...whos sole function and business it is to take care of this in a legal, uncomplicated manner...thats the entire reason for using such a service.

or are you suggesting that say...in the example i gave above where the dev is using gumroad...that gumroad is doing something illegal by not collecting vat outside eu and uk? AND they advertise that fact??

that dont add up.
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KVRian
1204 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:11 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:37 pm
excuse me please wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:34 pm
whyterabbyt wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:47 pm
chaosWyrM wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am
what you dont seem to understand, no matter how often its repeated is that not all eu sellers include vat. so apparently they do NOT have to collect it.
I think you're missing the possibility that EU sellers DO have to collect it, but that some could be neglecting to actually do so.
They won't, unless they desperately want to go to jail:
Yeah, you're right, companies dont do illegal stuff. :roll:
Of course I am right in this case. Because I know what I'm talking about. As if companies hire specialists for committing the most stupid crimes in the book. Sure.

You suggestions in this case are complete nonsense, but don't let that bother you.

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