Eplex7 DSP releases Klerhaim N1 analog VST plugin synthesizer with virtual circuit emulation technology

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
5512 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:53 am

Eplex7 DSP wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:21 am
But simplified - at ultra high sampling frequencies algorithms of filters, oscillators, saturators, tubes, envelopes can behave/work little bit different - usually higher sampling frequency things are more detailed have higher resolution which is not always good, for example in mixing 96khz sampling rate over 48khz - 96 mixes are more sharp, more precise but many people dont like so sharp transients they prefer rounder transients, also 96 mixes have more trebles etc. this is not just our opinion but many pro mastering engineers prefers 48khz for this reason. Same in synths (maybe not all but our synth) oscillators are more precise in 96 or higher sampling rate, filters may sound little bit different, same with other components - and overall sound is more precise and sharp but less analogue.

But difference is like 1-3% nothing special or significant, this suggestion is just for audiophiles which want to get maximum out of this...
This is a clear proof of Dunning-Kruger for those who know what he is talking about, those who don’t, might still think he knows what he is talking about...
I find this thread quite entertaining, thats why I am reading it...

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KVRist

Topic Starter

191 posts since 10 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:37 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:53 am
Eplex7 DSP wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:21 am
But simplified - at ultra high sampling frequencies algorithms of filters, oscillators, saturators, tubes, envelopes can behave/work little bit different - usually higher sampling frequency things are more detailed have higher resolution which is not always good, for example in mixing 96khz sampling rate over 48khz - 96 mixes are more sharp, more precise but many people dont like so sharp transients they prefer rounder transients, also 96 mixes have more trebles etc. this is not just our opinion but many pro mastering engineers prefers 48khz for this reason. Same in synths (maybe not all but our synth) oscillators are more precise in 96 or higher sampling rate, filters may sound little bit different, same with other components - and overall sound is more precise and sharp but less analogue.

But difference is like 1-3% nothing special or significant, this suggestion is just for audiophiles which want to get maximum out of this...
This is a clear proof of Dunning-Kruger for those who know what he is talking about, those who don’t, might still think he knows what he is talking about...
I find this thread quite entertaining, thats why I am reading it...
Not sure what you want to say by Dunning-Kruger (of course we know what was this psychological experiment about :) and who do you mean by that (who thinks he knows more than he knows in this forum), we are often meet people who are 2 years in music production and dont have any education (or only little experiences) in mixing/mastering/coding/analog electronics and think they know almost everything and then spreading various audio hoaxes :-) We are 17+ years in music production/mastering, dsp coding, have electrotechnical education (analog electronics and microelectronics) read many books about dsp, circuits as well as audio engineering/mixing/mastering and can say still dont know everything, still learning, still improving our skills, codes etc. And still lot to learn, this is endless process as technology is always expanding.

Regarding those 48kHz vs 96kHz or higher samplerates for sure that many algorithms sounds different when they are processed at higher samplerates, also Brian Lucey http://www.magicgardenmastering.com, one of best mastering engineers in the world who mastered Shania Twayn, L. Gallagher, Marilyn Manson or Depeche mode is saying in (I think it was puremix paid tutorials/lectures) videos that he often prefers 48kHz mixes, because when processing them they sounds different than 96kHz mixes which are more "bright".

So as you can see we dont think we know everything and still learning, watching opinions of other pro people in music industry, discussing, etc (last time we read book from Jonathan Wyner, perfect book that we can suggest to all people here, while many things from the book we allready knew it is alwayst perfect and refreshing to read about them from different perspecttive / by other eyes/mind of other people)

As we wrote in some next posts of course when recording 48kHz and 96kHz they sounds almost the same (96 have more details and resolution of course), when processing them 96 probably have less distortion, alliasing and artifacts (or nicer more pleasant distortion) when nonlinear processors are used but usually sounds more sharp, precise and bright than 44,1kHz for example (psychoacoustically it may sounds sound has more trebles because of higher resolution and because many dsp codes behave different at higher samplerates). Which is usually good but when you prefer more oldskool sound it may be good to mix at 48kHz or 44,1. Many algorithms/plugins behave different at different samplerates. Of course we prefer 96kHz or higher for mixing because of better resolution, quality, less artifacts etc. But we think algorithms inside our synth sounds better and more vintage at 44,1 o 48kHz (if you prefer oldskool vintage sound )

"But difference is like 1-3% nothing special or significant, this suggestion is just for audiophiles which want to get maximum out of this..."

By this we didnt mean 48 vs 96 difference, I hope that you read everythink not just few things out of context. We meant difference how our synth Klerhaim N1 behave in 44.1/48kHz and 96 kHz projects. Paradoxly we prefer 44kHz projects/daw sampling rate to be used with Klerhaim N1 for more oldskool sound and because its codes were designed for lower sampling rates.

We just hope that we are clear enough, English is not our native language so sometimes it is difficult to explain what exactly we mean or we cannot explain it so smooth and clear as it was in native language. I hope you understand that language barrier (we never lived in english speaking country)
Last edited by Eplex7 DSP on Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
www.eplex7.com - innovative VST / AU plug-ins, effects, synthesizers, samples, free tutorials

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KVRAF
5512 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:44 am

Age doesn’t prevent anybody being a fool (including me expressively...)...

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KVRist

Topic Starter

191 posts since 10 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:50 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:44 am
Age doesn’t prevent anybody being a fool (including me expressively...)...
Sure many older people think they are more smart than young because of experiences (+bigger ego) which is often not truth (many younger people have more experiences, education etc than older ones), but not sure what do you want to say by that? :-) (feel free to write private message to explain :)
www.eplex7.com - innovative VST / AU plug-ins, effects, synthesizers, samples, free tutorials

KVRAF
3394 posts since 21 Mar, 2020 from Gothenburg, Sweden

Post Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:08 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:53 am

I find this thread quite entertaining, thats why I am reading it...
Me too. I used to feel sad that people are actually wasting their money on this when there is so much better sounding freeware available, but if people want to throw good money away, who am I to argue? Now I just sit back and watch the drama unfold. :hihi:
Sad about tomorrow
Sorry, but it's not my fault

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KVRist

Topic Starter

191 posts since 10 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:41 am

Erisian wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:08 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:53 am

I find this thread quite entertaining, thats why I am reading it...
Me too. I used to feel sad that people are actually wasting their money on this when there is so much better sounding freeware available, but if people want to throw good money away, who am I to argue? Now I just sit back and watch the drama unfold. :hihi:
After at least 5 types of similar messages from you, Can you (and your ego) can accept fact that?:

- you may be wrong (because of big number of positive reviews at various forums, social networks from tents of people some of them are summarized at our website) or
- that there are thousands people who see world from different perspective/angle than you
- that art/quality is subjective
- that it is scientifically proved fact (by psychologist, neurologist) fact that outer world is
"rendered" by every person/brain differently (based on his "hardware and software" every brain has different neurosynaptic connections/structure/different mentality, emotions, experiences, subconscious and also prejudices)
and that you are not only one owner of truth and that quality is differently (subjectively) perceived by other people? While for few people something is garbage for other it is state of art (you can see that in music, while thousands of people love one artist other hate him, that is normal)
important is tolerance and understand your ego/subconsciousness because ego often think only im right and owner of truth. George Soros (not just one of most sucessfull traders but educated philosopher) invested more than 10 billions of USD just in that - to teach people tollerance and accept other/minor opinions (with his open society foundations) because subjective/egoistic view of world often leads in evil, fascist regimes etc. Also often minor opinions are the right ones (for example in medieval ages if you told earth is not flat or you used herbs you could be killed by mainstream)
- For us it is enertaining how you are constantly attacking us and people who like this synth for unknow reasons (ego, competition, or ?)

So please understand fact that art, quality is subjective and often cannot be measured (as one important artis told: "beauty is in eye of spectator" this describe theory that every person precieves the world differently so please be tolerant to other opinions, accept fact that you are not always right and that objective truth/quality in art does not exist! (that means stop attacking people with different view of the world/different subjective taste) and please note there is so many people like that :)

If you tell this is your personal opinion ok, absolutely no problem. But if you are presenting it as universal truth and that all other people are fools that is problem and lack of tolerance I think. Just to mention our statement that most of synth emulations at the market are far from analog, it is just our personal opinion, and we are not presenting it as universal truth as we described many times later (because as George Soros told: our view of the world is imperfect and for this reasons al our opinions can be imperfect too (for example we or also you could have wrong monitors/speakers, acoustics, D/A converter, Daw / drivers could create problems, we may not know all available synths at the market, could have different taste, prejudices, our and your brain can render world difrrerently including audio/visual input data to brain etc etc.) so all our statements are too subjective, not objective truth!

I hope it doesnt sound rude or so, but you are systematically writing this type of messages again and again here so wanted to explain. Anyway feel free to mention that freeware so we can test and subjectively compare, + dont forget to send you own music that we requested previously so we can subjectively judge too :-)

Ohh this was too deep in philosophy but needed to tell that.
www.eplex7.com - innovative VST / AU plug-ins, effects, synthesizers, samples, free tutorials

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KVRist

Topic Starter

191 posts since 10 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:47 pm

Bought it last night and will give it a go today. Loved the grittiness in the demo of sounds.
Thank you. Happy customers are best motivation in our next hard work. Hope that you will be satisfied with this little synth for long time. Feel free to post tracks you made with it.
www.eplex7.com - innovative VST / AU plug-ins, effects, synthesizers, samples, free tutorials

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KVRist

Topic Starter

191 posts since 10 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:41 am

Halonmusic wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:10 pm
this sounds quite nice :tu:
Thank you :-)

TO ALL: we are going to answer all posts and technical questions one by one very soon, we must answer many music forums and social networks + prioritize e-mails from customers, but we will answer everything soon, thanks
www.eplex7.com - innovative VST / AU plug-ins, effects, synthesizers, samples, free tutorials

KVRian
1302 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:45 am

Are you going to keep quoting the same posts just to bump your thread? This gets very close to spamming.

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KVRist

Topic Starter

191 posts since 10 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:50 am

holishit wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:23 pm
What you get shown in the YouTube videos doesn't necessarily sound unique to me to trigger an impulse to buy. The structure of the synthesizer is also kept very simple. The lack of detune in the oscillators, very few modulation options, which limits the synthesizer very much. Even if 29 € is still very little to introduce, it is too expensive for me for what is on offer.
Thanks for feedback. Yes synth is simple as many other vintage monophonic synths, but if you have some free time you can try standalone demo (no need of installation) because of mentioned circuit emulation technology synths sounds very different at various settings (for example volume of every oscillator affect sound in significant way, while most virtual synths sounds linear this is extremly nonlinear - because of C.E.T. every oscillator, filter, envelope etc it produces different amount of saturation, different shape, different amount of higher harmonics etc. at various output levels from every circuit/module EXAMPLE: oscillator has different sound shape and color at 1/3 2/3 or 1/1 Full output volume level from VCO module because of analog nonlinear behavior (louder output = different shape, saturation, higher harmonics) but just from VCO module, same happens at VCF filter, at output stage, at modulators etc.

, also envelopes have relatively unique feature - curve - so you have virtually envelopes of 5 different analog synths inside one vst. Mentioned things can create wider range of sounds and colors then classic linear synthesizer so while there is less features it may surprise you with more types of sounds/colors/positions of sound.

There is also possibility to modulate with external modulators, midi cc number list is attached with full version.

There is no lack of detune, every oscillator has tuning knob.

We are also developing other synths, hopefully we will add more modulation possibilities to them in future.

Thank you for questions/feedback

TO ALL: we are going to answer all posts and technical questions one by one very soon, we must answer many music forums and social networks + prioritize e-mails from customers, but we will answer everything soon, thanks
www.eplex7.com - innovative VST / AU plug-ins, effects, synthesizers, samples, free tutorials

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Suspended
4029 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:08 pm

Eplex7 DSP wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:50 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:44 am
Age doesn’t prevent anybody being a fool (including me expressively...)...
many younger people have more experiences, education etc than older ones
Sounds like a paradox .
If both young and old are equally intelligent and driven and still active in the field , the older person has more experience , simply because he/ she had more time ( assumming they both started at the same age )
Everything you have written about your new modelling techniques have been done by other companies and individuals ... 15 years ago .
Your hyperbole marketing is just that , word salad aimed at gullible people.
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRist

Topic Starter

191 posts since 10 Nov, 2014

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:40 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:08 pm
Eplex7 DSP wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:50 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:44 am
Age doesn’t prevent anybody being a fool (including me expressively...)...
many younger people have more experiences, education etc than older ones
Sounds like a paradox .
If both young and old are equally intelligent and driven and still active in the field , the older person has more experience , simply because he/ she had more time ( assumming they both started at the same age )
Everything you have written about your new modelling techniques have been done by other companies and individuals ... 15 years ago .
Your hyperbole marketing is just that , word salad aimed at gullible people.
Dear Gentleclockdivider, you didn't understood me right, again problem of digital communication where one person can understand same thing in various ways as previously mentioned. I was speaking about older people who are studying less, have less drive and maybe intelligence but they just think they know more than young just because of age, I know many of them.

"Everything you have written about your new modelling techniques have been done by other companies and individuals ... 15 years ago . "

Yes sure, but then why most of developers do not implement them in their synths and they dont behave and sounds like this? :) Most of synths we tested simply dont (im speaking about technical analysis not just personal opinions) but some (like 1%) of synths we tested implemented at least 50% of mentioned technologies in some way. Logically if all synths have implemented these emulation techniques why should we start development of new analog emulation, it would be waste of time to make the same thing.

I mean these https://youtu.be/3Y9knqeRzHU

We never told we invented perpetum mobile and yes we are 17+ years in dsp and you are right that development in these technologies is here many years, but things are improving, car was invented 100years ago but modern cars are still improved and looks different while uses the same principles, right? Elon Musk dont tell I invented car, just improved it :)
www.eplex7.com - innovative VST / AU plug-ins, effects, synthesizers, samples, free tutorials

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Suspended
4029 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:24 am

PLease stop posting your ridiculous you tube videos ,it is common knowledge for everyone who has the slightest interest in analog signals and dsp in general .
Do you really think we are high school teenagers that are WOOWWED by that ?
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRian
1302 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:37 am

It's funny how they try to promote this 'synth' like it's the best thing since sliced bread, but it took them over a week to even sell 100 copies. If it's really as good as they pretend it to be then it would sell like crazy.

I'm quite sure when U-He releases a new synth they sell 100 copies in less than an hour.

I really would like to see some names of those 99.5% synths that sound 'sterile, digital, cold, boring, robotic, uniformly, numb and sharp' according to Eplex7.

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Urs
u-he
25634 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:37 am

Reefius wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:37 am
I'm quite sure when U-He releases a new synth they sell 100 copies in less than an hour.
It usually takes about a day or so to get there. But that's probably because we do offers during public beta testing.

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