What are the differences between the Synclavier and the DX7?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist

Topic Starter

238 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:17 am

briefcasemanx wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:13 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:03 pm
Dexed is less of a cpu hog. , simple install, no bells and whistles and it’s free ..
Oh. And it sounds great ... win/ win situation
I already own the Arturia and I'm pretty well covered with cpu throughput, I just want to know if Dexed is actually better in sound quality.
Not to my ears. The sound quality is pretty poor and is very quiet. I get that it's free, but even so if it's not up to the job it doesn't matter

KVRAF
5573 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:31 am

I just remembered (and found again) this thread from PietW
"Huge Library for ARTURIA DX7 V"
viewtopic.php?t=517221

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KVRian
1070 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:56 am

Three.

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KVRAF
5274 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:14 am

Bodhisan wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:13 pm
Synclavier is head and shoulders above DX7. Oh, it can do things DX7 can’t even dream to do - and the case is not vice-versa in any stretch of the imagination.
They are both very different. The Synclavier can do tricks the DX can’t, but also the other way round. Any algorithm which has more than 2 operators in series or feedback, the Synclavier can’t do. Thats 32/32 (all), but you are right, that the Synclavier is more flexible and on top its easier to understand/program. There is almost no overlap though...
Thanks a lot for bringing this up, just by starting to read the manual of the Arturia Synclavier its obvious they enhanced it by adding stuff to it N.E.D. would have implemented if they would be still in the business, its so much more than just a replication of the original! Its likely the most enhanced emulation of all Arturia emulations.
12 instead of 4 partials, alone the resynthesis is what was just a dream back then... I have to start playing around with it, till now it was just a nostalgic addition to my collection of dream machines I could never afford in its era, but this is so much more....

KVRist
326 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:45 am

Yeah I really need to spend a lot of time with synclavier. My idea for creating a vst synth that I'll probably never get around to making is kind of like what synclavier already does.

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KVRAF
1708 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:48 pm

briefcasemanx wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:44 pm
Is dexed better than Arturia dx7?
I think it's a matter of subjective taste really. The Arturia DX7, though, goes beyond, what Dexed can do. And it has a way more inspiring GUI to work with.
Intel i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | GeForce RTX 3090 | Windows 10 Pro | Arturia AudioFuse | Arturia KeyLab mkII | Arturia SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One 5 | Reason 11 | Bitwig Studio 3 | Reaper 6 | Renoise 3 | FL Studio 20 | ~900 VSTs | ~300+ REs

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KVRAF
3907 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:35 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:17 am
briefcasemanx wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:13 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:03 pm
Dexed is less of a cpu hog. , simple install, no bells and whistles and it’s free ..
Oh. And it sounds great ... win/ win situation
I already own the Arturia and I'm pretty well covered with cpu throughput, I just want to know if Dexed is actually better in sound quality.
Not to my ears. The sound quality is pretty poor and is very quiet. I get that it's free, but even so if it's not up to the job it doesn't matter
Increase the operator velocity depth to get it louder ( and go beyond the standard 100 velocity limit of the dx7) .
Dexed sounds great , there is def something wrong with your ears
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRAF
1915 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:32 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:14 am
Bodhisan wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:13 pm
Synclavier is head and shoulders above DX7. Oh, it can do things DX7 can’t even dream to do - and the case is not vice-versa in any stretch of the imagination.
They are both very different. The Synclavier can do tricks the DX can’t, but also the other way round. Any algorithm which has more than 2 operators in series or feedback, the Synclavier can’t do. Thats 32/32 (all), but you are right, that the Synclavier is more flexible and on top its easier to understand/program. There is almost no overlap though...
Thanks a lot for bringing this up, just by starting to read the manual of the Arturia Synclavier its obvious they enhanced it by adding stuff to it N.E.D. would have implemented if they would be still in the business, its so much more than just a replication of the original! Its likely the most enhanced emulation of all Arturia emulations.
12 instead of 4 partials, alone the resynthesis is what was just a dream back then... I have to start playing around with it, till now it was just a nostalgic addition to my collection of dream machines I could never afford in its era, but this is so much more....
This.

They were different synths built for different purposes and really shouldn't even be compared. The DX7 can sound great and it's all over hits from the '80s. Since then, other people have really pushed what "FM" (really, PM: phase modulation) synthesis can do. Don't just go by the bare-bones presets in Dexed. Listen to some of the presets in DX7 V, and check out some examples on YouTube -- especially some of the more extreme examples. Depending upon what kind of sound you're looking for, the DX7 might be able to do it (or get close), but the bare-bones presets that came with the original DX7 don't sound like what we're used to hearing from "FM synths" today.

The Synclavier is an incredible synth/sampler in its own right, but it was not meant to be "just an FM synth" and it was not meant to compete with the DX7. Unlike the DX7, the Synclavier II had built-in sequencing and many other features, including (eventually) direct-to-disk recording. For the original Synclavier, N.E.D. had licensed the "FM" synthesis technology from Yamaha, but marketed the beast as an "additive synthesis" synth. In fact, by the time the DX7 came out, New England Digital had already added 16-bit sampling to the Synclavier and upgraded it to the Synclavier II. That would go on to form the basis of the Synclavier Digital Recording "Tapeless Studio" and the basis of the "workstation". The DX7 didn't have these features because it focused on PM/FM synthesis, and gave the user more options with that.

As with all their "emulations", Arturia adds a few things to the DX7 V and Synclavier V that the originals didn't have, so you can't even really compare them to each other, either.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm always looking for collaborators....

KVRist

Topic Starter

238 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:16 am

I will give dexxed another go, but I do struggle with FM. Altering one parameter seems to mean every other connected parameter/operator can also be changed and so sound design is a nightmare, despite the possibilities

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KVRAF
3907 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:30 am

In your previous post you said the sound quality is poor and too silent , and now you admit you struggle with fm :)
Maybe the problem is your lack of fm experience
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRian
1070 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:38 am

Ok, first it sounded awful, then it sounded too soft.
What about your other synths, do they sound better and louder?

KVRist

Topic Starter

238 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:13 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:30 am
In your previous post you said the sound quality is poor and too silent , and now you admit you struggle with fm :)
Maybe the problem is your lack of fm experience
How does that follow? I don't need to be good at programming to hear the quality. There are presets I can hear. I have no idea how faithful it is, i've never owned a dx7 and never will. But the arturia model, which may also be inaccurate for all i know, sounds much better. Dialing up velocity doesn't do anything.

Not sure why there's a need to be defensive about this. I don't like how Dexxed sounds.

KVRist

Topic Starter

238 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:14 am

excuse me please wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:38 am
Ok, first it sounded awful, then it sounded too soft.
What about your other synths, do they sound better and louder?
I don't really see the point of this, it's not a good faith question. I can respect the effort that went into programming dexxed without having to like the quality of how it sounds.

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KVRAF
3907 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:28 am

ghostwhistler wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:13 am
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:30 am
In your previous post you said the sound quality is poor and too silent , and now you admit you struggle with fm :)
Maybe the problem is your lack of fm experience
How does that follow? I don't need to be good at programming to hear the quality. There are presets I can hear. I have no idea how faithful it is, i've never owned a dx7 and never will. But the arturia model, which may also be inaccurate for all i know, sounds much better. Dialing up velocity doesn't do anything.

Not sure why there's a need to be defensive about this. I don't like how Dexxed sounds.
Because first of all the arturia has it's velocity levels to max 127 , where as on the original dx7 this unly goes up to 100 (dexed default ) , this means the harder you strike a key ..the louder the sound and/or modulator gain output into the carrier .
Image
If you don't like how dexed sounds chances are small you will like the dx7 .
I have a tg 77 ( yamaha flagship fm of the 90's ) and dexed holds up pretty well compared to the tg 77 ( when just using the tg77 without the advanced features ) .
It's perfectly fine to have an opinion about a certain piece , but at least have some experience with the actual hardware or fm in general ( which you clearly don't have ) before making a comparison
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRist
44 posts since 31 Aug, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:35 am

Synclavier is about 10 times more complex than DX7. Sure it has so many more possibilities, but at what cost ? Tbh I don't like the Synclavier as it takes hours to make something usable out of it. Not fun.
Also Dexed is very cool because all is in one panel, no need to switch over constantly. DX7 sounds a bit better though I think.

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