Matt Tytel makes Vital Open source!!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRist
373 posts since 28 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:24 am

starflakeprj wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:10 am
Being a filter imbecile here, but what defines a "good" filter? Or if the questions is better asked this way, what defines a bad filter?
I have often wondered about this myself so I have decided to just start a dedicated thread about this question.
Passed 303 posts. Next stop: 808.

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KVRAF
1847 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:46 am

BlitBit wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:24 am
starflakeprj wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:10 am
Being a filter imbecile here, but what defines a "good" filter? Or if the questions is better asked this way, what defines a bad filter?
I have often wondered about this myself so I have decided to just start a dedicated thread about this question.
:D :tu:
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KVRAF
15380 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:36 am

BlitBit wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:24 am
starflakeprj wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:10 am
Being a filter imbecile here, but what defines a "good" filter? Or if the questions is better asked this way, what defines a bad filter?
I have often wondered about this myself so I have decided to just start a dedicated thread about this question.
That's all well and good but it distracts from the question of what's lacking in Vital's Filters.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRAF
3411 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:55 am

Teksonik wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:36 am
BlitBit wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:24 am
starflakeprj wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:10 am
Being a filter imbecile here, but what defines a "good" filter? Or if the questions is better asked this way, what defines a bad filter?
I have often wondered about this myself so I have decided to just start a dedicated thread about this question.
That's all well and good but it distracts from the question of what's lacking in Vital's Filters.
I personally think Vital's filters are great. Like, to the point where I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they say otherwise. Groupthink in action?

I mean, just play the damn synth and listen to how they respond to dynamics. Tweak the cutoff with high resonance and a little drive and hear that lovely 'rip' across the harmonics. Only 2 of the filters in Pigments are of similar quality, and against the likes of Serum it's no contest.

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KVRAF
15380 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:11 am

cron wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:55 am
I personally think Vital's filters are great. Like, to the point where I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they say otherwise.
I agree. I find Vital's Filters to be just fine. I can see the point of asking for more filters but there's nothing wrong with the current filters that they need to be replaced by "better" ones :shrug:
cron wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:55 am
Groupthink in action?
I think you're right. It's just fashionable for some to complain about filters these days without really knowing what they're complaining about.

Anyway we'll see if the guy who asked for better filters in Vital can convey in precise and non-subjective terms what is lacking in the current filters.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRist
181 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:23 am

mtytel wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:21 am
Vital doesn’t use JUCE’s filters
Oh, sorry, seems i have been desinformed.

KVRist
181 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:31 am

starflakeprj wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:10 am
Being a filter imbecile here, but what defines a "good" filter? Or if the questions is better asked this way, what defines a bad filter?
For me:
Good filter = Tons of character/"musicality", but also super-clean sound.
Examples: Nord Lead2, Virus B/C/Ti, Softube Model 72 and other good analog models.
Bad Filter: Have character, but muddy. Or super-clean clinical/digital sound with lack of character.

KVRist
181 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:45 am

Teksonik wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:03 am
Can anyone actually elucidate why they find Vital's filters lacking ? "I want better/more" doesn't really help.
What Vital filters lacking? I think Some filter model like in Softube model 72. Just listen how it sounds. Very rich and full, with tons of harmonics and massive beautiful self-oscillation in high resonance mode, but at same time super clean sound and very warm and "musical" sounding.
As for Vital being "digital" synth withount analog modelling of oscillators (can use wavetables from analog synths though, but it's not the same), the presence of the very good analog-modelled filter with tons of character and warmth makes big sense to compete with other synths in that field. I, personally, don't like most analog synths for being too simple in features, but i love that sound. Having such great synth like Vital in terms of usability and complex features + that warm analoguish sound = dream synth. Listen to Novation Summit for example, that have similar ideology, ( but too expensive for me + zero usability for me as being hardware). Some older VA synths have same ideology - digital engine with tons of reatures and modulation possibilities + very good and warm sounding filter models.
Or check Vermona Mono Lancet/Perfourmer. This is my sound reference for warm analogue sound.
Having that Vermona filter model in Vital is the blessing :ud:

KVRist
181 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:57 am

FapFilter wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:48 am
Why not use a filter VST(i) if you want something different than the synths stock ones.
Because you can use external filter only in mono mode. This is not working for polyphony.

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fmr
KVRAF
10009 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:10 am

BlitBit wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:24 am
starflakeprj wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:10 am
Being a filter imbecile here, but what defines a "good" filter? Or if the questions is better asked this way, what defines a bad filter?
I have often wondered about this myself so I have decided to just start a dedicated thread about this question.
That's "exactly" what we needed :lol:
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
10009 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:12 am

SoulState wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:45 am
Teksonik wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:03 am
Can anyone actually elucidate why they find Vital's filters lacking ? "I want better/more" doesn't really help.
What Vital filters lacking? I think Some filter model like in Softube model 72.
What did I say? A Moog filter :lol:
Fernando (FMR)

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addled muppet weed
79175 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:22 am

fmr wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:12 am
SoulState wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:45 am
Teksonik wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:03 am
Can anyone actually elucidate why they find Vital's filters lacking ? "I want better/more" doesn't really help.
What Vital filters lacking? I think Some filter model like in Softube model 72.
What did I say? A Moog filter :lol:
its the number one!
unless bones pops in, then its shit :x

everything needs more filters, thats just how it is :shrug:
especially the internet...

KVRist
181 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:49 am

fmr wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:12 am
[What did I say? A Moog filter :lol:
Haha, Moog filter is a classic, but i mention Model 72 not because moog filter itself, but because very good sounding digital model of (some random) analog filter. It just so happened that this is a moog, LOL. Is this a karma, or something? :D
I, personally, like Vermona's and MS 20 sallen key filters character much more.

KVRist
181 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:57 am

fmr wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:10 am
so I have decided to just start a dedicated thread about this question.
That's "exactly" what we needed :lol:
I wrote some of my thoughts about filters in that "dedicated" thread.
In short (to add that i wrote here): Good Filter = Filter that INSPIRES you (to make some music).
You just turn knobs, and have that WOOW!!! :o :hyper: , you now

KVRist
336 posts since 25 Aug, 2018

Post Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:06 pm

vurt wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:22 am

everything needs more filters, thats just how it is :shrug:
especially the internet...
I thought it was more cowbell that everything needed.

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