Massive vs synth 1 vs Ik Multimedia Syntronik

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
12372 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:42 pm

^Great List, make music with those synths for a few months and you'll be able to answer your own questions about which synths (if any) to buy.

KVRist
306 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:59 pm

Synth 1 is outdated. It has really bad (not good) sounding oscillators and filters. Even 10 years ago I never understood the hype, there were / are much better free alternatives around.

Syntronik is not a real synth, it's sample based, so you don't get the full synthesizer experience in terms of modulation capacity and sound sculpting.

Try a few free ones from the Top 10 list above. There is no benefit in spending money, if you can't even make proper use of the good synths that are available for free.

KVRAF
12372 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:04 pm

Kazi7 wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:59 pm
Synth 1 is outdated. It has really bad (not good) sounding oscillators and filters. Even 10 years ago I never understood the hype, there were / are much better free alternatives around.

Syntronik is not a real synth, it's sample based, so you don't get the full synthesizer experience in terms of modulation capacity and sound sculpting.

Try a few free ones from the Top 10 list above. There is no benefit in spending money, if you can't even make proper use of the good synths that are available for free.

 
All true. Synth 1 is weak sauce, but, that list has good choices and until you can tell the difference between the quality of the basic elements of Synth 1 vs Tyrell N6 then you probably will make bad purchasing decisions. It's a great list to study and learn what sounds you're after.

KVRist
289 posts since 11 Dec, 2017

Post Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:26 pm

Stranger Things? Synthwave?

I’d go for Sylenth1 or Carbon Electra. The former is more CPU friendly, the latter is more affordable. Their preset libraries aren’t geared towards that sound but they can definitely do it very well.

Tyrell N6 is a great free choice as well.

AAS Ultra Analog VA3 sounds great and is geared towards a more classic sound but it’s expensive and kind of harder to edit because of how they laid it out.

Demo them?

KVRAF
1508 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:27 am

Kazi7 wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:59 pm
Synth 1 is outdated. It has really bad (not good) sounding oscillators and filters. Even 10 years ago I never understood the hype, there were / are much better free alternatives around.
What exactly is "outdated sound" ?

Minimoog ? (50 years outdated)

Rhodes piano (50 years outdated)

Hammond B3 (60 years outdated)

steel string accoustic guitar (170 years outdated)

violin (400 years outdated)

Get the idea ?

A sound is a sound is a sound. You either like that sound or not, its a preference. Synth1 is not DIVA, nor can it do UHE- RETRO sounds. No, it will not do the MiniMoog sounds very well either , but most of those sounds in my list it can emulate in a synthy way extremly well. And it is very excellent at wierd and whacky electronic sounds. Its also musical, and very - very - playable. I get lost in it for ages playing.

You don't get it which is fine. But the huge amount of presets done for free by others proves how much they liked it. You have installed the 20,000 or so presets in the Zip bank I presume ?

I have been trying out MassiveX and Synth1 side by side and they sound very similar. It can be hard to remember which one you are playing. Technically, MassiveX should beat Synth1 easily, but little Synth1 holds its own very well against Massive X considering it only 1 megabyte. Massive X is good though.

KVRist
46 posts since 24 Nov, 2009

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:08 am

Synth1 has three great things going for it, which keep it in my toolbox:

Free and pretty stable
Tiny install size and CPU usage(by current standards)
Lots of preset banks

The sound is 2000's VA, for sure, but as much I like the richness present in modern analog models, that isn't so huge a disadvantage. Like with every synth, mixing and effects processing is transformative to the character; often a problem with Synth1 can be addressed with a second instance of Synth1 and mixing. The biggest limits of Synth1 mostly come down to the architecture(streamlined, not so many routing options, oscillators, envelope types etc. - not a "sound designer's" synth). Lately I often turn to Synthmaster One to get "Synth1 with additional options." There are plenty of options for going complex(VCV Rack, for one free example) and many fewer for simple turn-a-knob patching.

As for the other two in this comparison, Massive has never been on my radar so no comment. Syntronik I have because of a bundle, but while the sounds it has, it nails, it's not flexible enough for me to want to reach for it. You can't "perform" a patch on a sample-based system, so it ends up feeling like a boat anchor. I just don't use synths the way I use multisampled acoustics.

KVRist
306 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:26 am

dellboy wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:27 am


What exactly is "outdated sound" ?

Minimoog ? (50 years outdated)

Rhodes piano (50 years outdated)

Hammond B3 (60 years outdated)

...
Not a very good comparison: in the case of Synth 1 we are talking about algorithmically outdated DSP code (as in: not state of the art in terms of recreating the analog characteristics of the hardware pendants), not about classical instruments that have been essential for the evolution of music.

If you cannot discern the difference between Synth 1 and a good sounding synth, that's totally fine. There are even case where one might prefer the rather generic, early 2000s kind of sound of Synth 1 (certain genres).

You need to consider this: No one would code oscillators and filters the way they had been coded for Synth 1 today, in the meantime oscillators that behave closer to real analog oscillators and zero delay feedback filters have become prevalent. Even the most generic oscillators and filters found as default modules in audio development kits such as JUCE today will sound much superior to Synth 1.

There were and are better alternatives for free, so I'm really curious why people still recommend Synth 1 these days? Is it because there are like 25.000 patches available? Doesn't change the bad sound characteristics it produces. I rather have a synth that is capable of producing a proper sound with no presets available, than a synth with 1 million patches, that all sound mediocre at best.

But I really did not want to turn this into a Synth 1 Pro & Cons thread, so if you want to discuss this further, we might do it in another thread.

KVRAF
27717 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:35 am

I agree, even though I don't really see that that's the purpose of Synth1. Synth1 is a typical "digital" VA, not an analog modelled synth by any stretch.

For me, it's horses for courses really. For the sounds I make, both has its uses - analog modelled synths and digital "flagship" kind of synths. For example, I don't think anything analog modelled beats Spire of Sylenth1 for VA supersaw pads, and they couldn't do what Largo can do with wavetables either. For thick basses, I often grab Spire as well, because you can simply stack more sonic power than with something like Monark, which can do great basses too, but, obviously, it's limited to 3 oscillators, doesn't have unison, and is mono as well. For leads, analog blips and bleps (if you want to call it like that), and effect sounds, analog emulations can be great though. Or... if you just want a rather simple pluck, which already sounds very thick because of the Minimoog oscillators, Monark can be great for that as well.

That all said, I wouldn't use Synth1 for pad stuff or basses either though. Why would I, when Spire or Sylenth1 pack so much more raw power than it? Synth1 is great for free, but, it's a bit on the thin side, doesn't sound very beefy, and also doesn't sound very "hi-fi", when it comes to the top end.

I'm sure some will disagree again, and yell "Nooo!! Totally wrong! Synth1 can be all that!", but, hey, if there's one thing I learned here then it's that some couldn't distinguish a branch from a tree. :P

I also think there's nothing wrong with using Synth1. It can be quite a cool synth, it's just that, for the sound it does, I ALWAYS find a payware synth which does it better.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
1508 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:47 am

chk071 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:35 am


I'm sure some will disagree again, and yell "Nooo!! Totally wrong! Synth1 can be all that!"
I already said it can't do those sort of sounds.

And what are those sounds anyway ? - they are emulations of analogue synths.

And when were analogue synths invented ? in the 1960s. So what we have is a fashion. What goes around comes around.

Synth1 is probably not so good for EDM. And my guess that is the genre that you are into ?

KVRAF
27717 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:52 am

dellboy wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:47 am
And what are those sounds anyway ? - they are emulations of analogue synths.

And when were analogue synths invented ? in the 1960s. So what we have is a fashion. What goes around comes around.
I'm not sure if I quite get your point.
dellboy wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:47 am
Synth1 is probably not so good for EDM. And my guess that is the genre that you are into ?
I mostly do Ambient, Chillout, or Breaks stuff. Sometimes also a bit of Deep House, or Dub Techno. No "typical" EDM, I would say, even though I never really understood which genres fall under it.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
408 posts since 25 Nov, 2010

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:07 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9VBb1tO88

Synth1 is capable. If you can stand the interface :)

KVRAF
1508 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:09 am

chk071 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:52 am
I'm not sure if I quite get your point.
I am not sure what point you do not get ?

Analogue sound was very in fashion from 1970 or so up until 1983. The it went completely out of fashion.

I know, I sold two analogue synths back then for a pittance to buy a Korg M1.

Sparkly digital was all the rage from the mid 80s until maybe the early 2000s. Then analogue came back big time.

Sound is like everything else, a fashion. Ten year cycles or so.

KVRAF
27717 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:13 am

dellboy wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:09 am
chk071 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:52 am
I'm not sure if I quite get your point.
I am not sure what point you do not get ?

Analogue sound was very in fashion from 1970 or so up until 1983. The it went completely out of fashion.

I know, I sold two analogue synths back then for a pittance to buy a Korg M1.

Sparkly digital was all the rage from the mid 80s until maybe the early 2000s. Then analogue came back big time.

Sound is like everything else, a fashion. Ten year cycles or so.
Not in my book. :)
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
476 posts since 27 Feb, 2007

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:32 am

You must of heard some bad soundsets from it or default banks... synth1 is capable but , not super clean cause i do hear some plasticky pulse from time to time on it that im not a fan of...
Anyway, IMO good free simple synth for 80s synthsounds( without confusing modulations in your face )with decent detune that emulates juno and jupiters stacked waves or unisons is :
-charlatan, k1ks and lokomotiv.
But for me its synth1 and SQ8L that makes it just more complex and more capable because of modulations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWROOrBg-vA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZGY8meMjg0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja1CzMsmjPA

KVRian
1184 posts since 11 Jun, 2019

Post Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:16 am

Experts would probably differ at least 42 shades of what consumers call synthwave, so i'll better not influence you with an other biased reply.

But the Synth itself makes just a part of that 80s sound for Sure :|

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