U-he repro vs phase plant

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRist
197 posts since 2 May, 2018

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm

I gotta admit that I can't tell any synths apart. I can't tell a moog from a prophet etc.

Why would anyone choose repro over diva or diva over phase plant etc.

To me they all sound like....... Synths.

KVRer
7 posts since 2 Apr, 2021

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:55 pm

I’m also a relative beginner but something I did that helped grasp intuitively the differences is to download the demo versions of two or three and replicate the most basic patches. One oscillator + one filter + one envelope. Try to recreate the same sawtooth sound in all three and you’ll hear the difference.

KVRist
389 posts since 18 Nov, 2010

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:20 pm

Sometimes the differences are overrated and very SUBJECTIVE based on personal interests and needs. Like, does it sound EXACTLY like a real analog or simply sound like a great synth on its own? Also, do you listen through average headphones or speakers, or pro recording studio grade active monitor speakers?

If you can't hear the difference, than that aspect simply isn't important to YOUR specific needs, and there is nothing wrong with that! If you make music with a synth, ENJOY!! If you just screw around, ENJOY!

IF IT SOUNDS GOOD, IT IS GOOD. That's all that matters, unless your life consists of not making any music, and doing comparisons to find out which synth does what better than another synth.

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KVRAF
2048 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:35 pm

All instruments sound like instruments.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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KVRist
224 posts since 21 Jul, 2020

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:38 pm

Well heres the thing. Repro is an emulation of an old Sequential Pro-1, which is a synth that was produced in the 80s. Therefore, it is rather simple and limited in what it can do, but it does sound great.

Phaseplant is basically a "synth workstation", where you can drag and drop modules to create whatever type of synth you'd like.

As far as sound goes, both sound fantastic in their own way, and both are perfectly capable of producing tones fit for any professional release. So it really depends what you want. Repro is fairly simple to learn, but maybe Phaseplant isnt a bad idea either, because you can start really simple, with like one oscillator, and drag new things as you need.

I would say watch a few videos on basic synthesis on YT, and demo both.

Generally these days, synths are far more about the workflow and UI than they are about the sound because, you are right, many synths can be made to sound very close to each other in timbre and tone. So its more about how easy it is for you to make that sound you're after, and what features the synth has available for making those sounds.

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GRRRRRRR!
11613 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:04 pm

Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm
To me they all sound like....... Synths.
From the mouths of babes... For 99% of things, you are right. One synth will get you want you are looking for as well as another. But there are definitely differences that make some synths better suited to certain things than others. e.g. Any synth with a ladder filter, like a MiniMoog had, has limitations when it comes to using high levels of resonance, whereas a synth with a State-Variable (SV) filter, like an Oberheim SEM, does not. So if you want to make a big, squelchy bass patch with loads of resonance, you're usually better off using something with an SV filter than a ladder filter, especially if you want to modulate/automate the cutoff or resonance.

After a while you get a feel for which of your synths is likely to be the best one for any particular job but they are all just synths and often it comes down to personal choice - which synth you like to work with - rather than there only being one synth that will get the job done.

I think I have close to 50 instrument plugins but I keep going to the same 3 or 4 for pretty much everything and they are not what anyone would call the best 3 or 4 I have. Quite the opposite, they are mostly synths that were very cheap, one was free, but they sound good and get the job done. (If you're interested, they are JP6K for bass and strings, Union for impossibly huge sound, TRK-01 Bass [Reaktor ensemble] for rhythms, arps and stuff like that and Hexeract because it's sample-based nature makes it very versatile. I use those synths very specifically because they sound great and are all really simple to work with and, therefore, fast to get results from.)
NOVAkILL : Dell G7 Core i7, 32GB RAM, Win10, Zoom U24 | Studio One | JP6K, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, ARP Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Knifonium, Thorn, Equator, VG Carbon | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket.

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KVRAF
4324 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:53 pm

Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm
I gotta admit that I can't tell any synths apart. I can't tell a moog from a prophet etc.
Why would anyone choose repro over diva or diva over phase plant etc.
To me they all sound like....... Synths.
TL;DR
I can understnad this if you are just starting out. Everything within a category is going to sound similar/the same. Synths, compressors, EQs, etc. I have colleagues that started with music and audio when I did but they only went so far as stock Logic Pro - they have no desire for anything other than the stock plugins. As an aside, that's the beauty of Logic if you have no interest in the wider range of possibilities with other tools.

The reason a person may choose one synth over an another is because of some combination of features and sound. Like Bones said, there are certain features or workflows that are preferrable even if sound is not an decisding factor. In other cases a person may choose solely on sound. Even though you don't hear a signifiant difference, other's do - this demonstrates the wide range of subjective evaluation we have (and why there are so many arguments about it).

The reason why others hear a difference and you don't is because... wait for it.... they can hear the difference. There is no sense in trying to convince someone they don't hear a difference. Therefore, to them, they hear the difference. We all just have to learn to live with each other in peace...

Here's an example: I had two almost identical mixes - one had a bit of high end boost which accentuated the high-hat. I played them for my girlfriend who is not into audio and is a casual music listener. She couldn't hear a difference. I seamlessly A/Bed and ensured +/-0.3dB LUFS match. She couldn't hear it. However once I pointed out a couple obvious differences, she then said "Now I can't unhear it! How could I not hear that before??"

Such is the nature of audio and music. I figure we'll be bashing each other about this stuff for quite awhile yet,maybe forever!

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KVRAF
10994 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:23 pm

Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm
I gotta admit that I can't tell any synths apart. I can't tell a moog from a prophet etc.

Why would anyone choose repro over diva or diva over phase plant etc.

To me they all sound like....... Synths.
You should change your hobby. Maybe floral arrangement?
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

KVRAF
3295 posts since 20 Feb, 2004

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:36 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:23 pm
Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm
I gotta admit that I can't tell any synths apart. I can't tell a moog from a prophet etc.

Why would anyone choose repro over diva or diva over phase plant etc.

To me they all sound like....... Synths.
You should change your hobby. Maybe floral arrangement?
Yeah, you ain't from around here, are ya boy?

GIT 'IM, FELLAS!!!
A well-behaved signature.

Rad Grandad
33201 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:38 pm

Hi
A toxic person needs someone to attack when their ego is threatened.

KVRist
172 posts since 11 Dec, 2018

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:27 pm

What patches are you referencing when comparing the synths? Try filter movements with some resonance. Also, the envelopes may behave differently.

But to answer your question, people will use the synth they like the sound of and that is easy to use for them. For example, if they never use wavetables, and aren’t interested in the modular phase modulation architecture, and like the analog sound, instead of Phase Plant they may choose a simpler synth such as Diva or Repro.

If you make all kinds of music (including Dubstep for example) and you want to have a synth that can do a lot of different things, you may opt to use Phase Plant. And so on.

User avatar
KVRAF
10994 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:59 pm

If you really like coffee, you can tell the difference between pounds of the same roast of the same varietal from the same roaster from week to week. I bet the same holds true for a lot of things. Wine, guitars, etc. You’ve got to care though. It could be subtle to a casual observer, or unnoticeable. Once you learn to love synthesizers, you will think this thread was the silliest thing you ever wrote... or you will never really care and forget the whole thing.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

User avatar
KVRAF
10994 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:02 pm

JerGoertz wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:36 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:23 pm
Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm
I gotta admit that I can't tell any synths apart. I can't tell a moog from a prophet etc.

Why would anyone choose repro over diva or diva over phase plant etc.

To me they all sound like....... Synths.

 
You should change your hobby. Maybe floral arrangement?

 
Yeah, you ain't from around here, are ya boy?

GIT 'IM, FELLAS!!!
 
I say we let’m go.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

197 posts since 2 May, 2018

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:51 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:02 pm
JerGoertz wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:36 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:23 pm
Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm
I gotta admit that I can't tell any synths apart. I can't tell a moog from a prophet etc.

Why would anyone choose repro over diva or diva over phase plant etc.

To me they all sound like....... Synths.

 
You should change your hobby. Maybe floral arrangement?

 
Yeah, you ain't from around here, are ya boy?

GIT 'IM, FELLAS!!!
 
I say we let’m go.
LOL. And this is your music??? Ok bro

https://open.spotify.com/artist/69FkPuXHI8bjklN8yEbs3o

KVRian
1182 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:55 am

They're all programmed different, they have different envelope curves, different filter resonant responses etc. Filter response in the same synth using a different algorithm or mode is night and day in some cases, for example comparing the Normal vs Dirty engines in Hive. Put a saw through a 24db Lowpass in Hive, crank the resonance, turn on the Distortion module, crank the amount and then sweep the cutoff. If you can't tell the difference, then you need to train your ears and or improve your monitoring environment. Normal is brighter, more acidic, squelchy and screams at high Q, whereas Dirty is a lot darker and more driven, even at default 0db drive. I find I need to back off the input drive to more clearly here its character at lower resonance settings.

If the difference in character can be so drastic within the same synth even, it follows that sonic character can vary as drastically or more so, from synth to synth.
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