U-he repro vs phase plant

[pdxindy]

That was an example from my experience, nothing more. I'm having a, hopefully pleasant, conversation with friends, if that's not what you want to do then perhaps consider talking to other people.

There is significant evidence, posts here, from a renewed interest in hardware, from the community at large, that dedicated hardware is a different experience from controllers and software for many people. That is all one needs to refute the argument that there is no difference universally.

That is a good point to stand on.

I go farther than that. I don't believe anyone can remotely control a Roland TR8S with a Panorama P4 as fast and effectively as can be done with the dedicated TR8S interface. To me that is an obvious and non controversial statement. Same with using the no expense spared, dedicated Diva controller that someone made. It is going to be faster and more effective for that purpose than a generalized tool that has to serve multiple functions and which is built to a price point.

I believe the only reason someone would be arguing otherwise is because they have become caught up in wanting to 'win' (whatever that is) and are unable (at least temporarily) to admit the most obvious stuff.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

I go farther than that. I don't believe anyone can remotely control a Roland TR8S with a Panorama P4 as fast and effectively as can be done with the dedicated TR8S interface.

Who on Earth would even think of controlling a hardware device like TR8S with its own interface with a controller dedicated to specific DAWS and softsynth? I might as well say that no one can control Reason and its synths with TR8S as good as you can with Nektar P4. You guys surely know how to talk nonsense This thread has become a threat to sanity to read. Wow. Just wow. I am off. Whatever your quest is, best of luck

[BONES]

It is going to be faster and more effective for that purpose than a generalized tool that has to serve multiple functions and which is built to a price point.

Maybe, but the real point is that using a VSTi editor and a mouse is going to be the most effective of all. You may not prefer to do it that way but you can't deny the efficiency of it.

[E_Anderson]

I loaded up Padshop2 as soon as I first bought it and wasn't really enjoying it until I routed 6 parameters onto faders and knobs on my keyboard and started playing it like an instrument. Instantly good times, I then went into Harmor and did the same thing with analogous parameters and the same knobs and had another insanely good time all over again. You can do some fast simultaneous stuff working with two hands and some sticks and rocks

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

In the 90s where Workstations both were Godsend and one convoluted mess to get into, there were only few choices: Take the learning curve and get it under your skin or sell to get something else and take the economical loss. Today, the thing I work most speedy with is my MC909. That is not because it is logically structured; they just spread functions in arbitrary menus when updating it. Nor because it is dedicated; though it has many functions up front, there are even more beneath. I work fast due to training and patience to a level where it became an exo-sceleton. I am heading the same way with Reason and Nektar P4 now. Every time I use it, I automatically add to the proces. In such a learning proces, I will certainly not let me distract by all my HWs. It is about staying focused as much as possible.

Youngsters want all served on a silverplatter now a days with as less work as possible.

Suit yourself. I do enjoy learning my gear. It is always a compromise between work and joy and has always been to me.

[pdxindy]

I go farther than that. I don't believe anyone can remotely control a Roland TR8S with a Panorama P4 as fast and effectively as can be done with the dedicated TR8S interface.

You guys surely know how to talk nonsense

hehehe... name calling and insults are the fall back of someone who cannot back up their claims

Time to put up! Let's see you start from init on any VST drum machine, using your P4 as a controller and do something like this Elektron Analog Rytm demo which is an on the fly realtime performance...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmImBEy68s0

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

^ Thick as a brick

[E_Anderson]

- d e l e t e d -

[SteveElbows]

If u-he synths could fully work with Osmose, including the pressure weighted portamento, that would be amazing!

We're all in for a sore wake up call on trivial patents. It's held by the guys who make the software, not by the Osmose guys.

Good news though, as far as I can see, the patent is from 2006, hence runs out in 2024 I guess. So by the time we have an Osmose around and time enough to implement it, we're free to do as we please.

The moment of realisation about the absurdity of this situation is now upon us in more substantial form:

1) US version of this patent seems to have an 'adjusted expiration date' of late 2028.

2) Online documentation for the non-Haken midi layer on the Osmose includes the words "While Pressure-Weighted Portamento is a patented feature by Haken Audio reserved for the internal synth engine for the time being, Osmose’s MPE Arpeggiator will be available for the External MIDI Mode in a future firmware update."

So this means no pressure-weighted portamento from the controllers side of things, in terms of what midi it outputs from its configurable midi out din connection or the first usb midi port. This is the midi layer that can be configured in Osmose settings to be MPE or standard midi or standard midi with poly aftertouch or even multi channel midi for synths from the pre-MPE era that do support 'note/voice per midi channel' but that dont have the concept of the MPE global channel (and I know you dont like the global channel in MPE and think its a waste).

3) But the Osmose does also have a 2nd midi output port via the USB connection. This outputs Haken MPE+ messages if setup to do so in the Osmoses settings. And pressure-weighted portamento midi data does already come out of this Haken midi port, so I can already use this to control other synths (since MPE+ is backwards compatible and the extra midi data is mostly ignored by synths).

Its all very silly. I dont think people including early Osmose owners have noticed the above mention of the patent in the documentation and moaned about it all over the internet quite yet. But now I'm starting to talk about it so its probably just a matter of time. Since I remembered you talking about it here a long time ago, I thought I would start here first. Any further thoughts now that the Osmose current reality of this feature is clearer? I bought a few of your synths today, I will now deliberately try them with the MPE+ output from the Osmose. Since the receivers of these midi messages has no idea how they are made, and the pressure-weighted portamento output is effectively indistinguishable from MPE pitch bend data created by any other method, its not like MPE synths can be accused of infringing this patent by interpreting MPE data in the normal way. Not unless they replicated pressure-weighted portamento from scratch using the other parts of the MPE data, ie recreating it using the MPE per note pressure data (rather than relying on the MPE controller baking this into the output via pitch bend messages). Which is what they'd need to do if there was no Haken midi output from the Osmose, and if expressive e never enable it for the other non-Haken midi output layer in the Osmose.

I suppose the situation could yet get even sillier if Haken dont like me pointing out that the Haken MPE+ midi output from Osmose can already be used to control other synths, and demand that this 2nd Osmose midi output is stripped of pressure-weighted portamento data before leaving the Osmose.

[DCrown]

Phase Phant is better for creating own presets imo if you like its modular architecture.
If cpu usage matters, phase plant might not be the best choice, though

[Korg Supporter]

Maybe a better comparison would be between Phase Plant and the upcoming Zebra 3.

[martiu]

Phase Plane or Triple Cheese?

[Tj Shredder]

Phase Phant is better for creating own presets imo if you like its modular architecture.
If cpu usage matters, phase plant might not be the best choice, though

Obviously you never touched an Eagan Matrix…

MPE+ would need Midi 2.0.
And about these patents, at least in Germany you can‘t patent ideas, not even software, which is usually better protected by copyright. You can always create a software method to implement that idea and publish it…

[DCrown]

Phase Phant is better for creating own presets imo if you like its modular architecture.
If cpu usage matters, phase plant might not be the best choice, though

Obviously you never touched an Eagan Matrix…

MPE+ would need Midi 2.0.
And about these patents, at least in Germany you can‘t patent ideas, not even software, which is usually better protected by copyright. You can always create a software method to implement that idea and publish it…

Dave Smith once said:" Korg are a great company to work for" and later he added
"I PERSONALLY GOT BORED PRETTY QUICKLY WITH SAMPLING. IT'S EASY TO DO TECHNICALLY, AND THEN IT'S JUST A MATTER OF FOREVER ADDING FEATURES TO THE SOFTWARE"
No kidding, I just wanted to share my personal opinion on these two plugins.
Imo it seems to be more inspiring to make own presets with phase plant than repro,
but if someone doesn't intend to make own presets, well, just demo the synths.
These two synths are pretty different, so a strange comparison anyway

[Tj Shredder]

If you look at the synthesis methods, both are boring compared to Eagan Matrix. I would extend the quote of Dave Smith to wavetable synthesis… Diva is good for nostalgia and character, Phase plant is eventually the most expensive wavetable synth on the market, as you need to pay extra to make it sound good. I participated at the OSC, when it started. At the same time Bitwig released the Grid. I was deeply bored with Phase plant in comparison. The only oscillator which was half way interesting was the wavetable, and to make this sound good I needed the fx section as neither the oscillators nor the filters had character. Compared to the Grid it was also complicated to patch…
To compare Diva with Phase Plant certainly is strange its not apples and oranges, its comparing apples to chop suey…