U-he repro vs phase plant

[BONES]

That is only a predefined relationship. You cannot control them independently at the same time...

Maybe not with a single macro knob but it is very easy with an X-Y pad and I've got plenty of VSTi with those built-in - Equator, Hive, HY-Poly and that otherwise unremarkable WA Productions synth come to mind and I'm sure there are others.

Except the softsynth it is see only (and even then it is only a screen representation)... with the hardware it is see and touch.

What? You can adjust the controls on a softsynth GUI, it is just as touchable as any hardware. The main difference is that you don't have to reach over your computer to get to it, or have it in the way so that it's convenient and everything else is hard to reach.

None of my hardware has the kind of control you're talking about and the four I owned a few years ago that did, didn't last long because all the things you want to pretend make it great actually made it so much worse than software to work with. All the hardware I thought was worth keeping hides all it's parameters under multiple layers of menus, accessed via a handful of knobs and a tiny screen. But, of course, they have a VSTi editor which makes them every bit as good/easy as a softsynth to work with.

No midi controller can match the hands on immediacy of dedicated hardware controls.

Of course it can - it's the exact same f**king thing - - you turn the knob and the value of the parameter changes. If it didn't, you couldn't use it at all. What the hell is wrong with your brain that you can't make that work?

I don't care what the purists say if it works well. I'm surprised you do care.

I don't care, I'm just pointing out that it won't happen, for the reason stated. If Monologue had endless encoders, I probably would have kept mine but those same encoders might have made it $100 more expensive, in which case I would never have bought it in the first place. That's the dilemma these company's face - they need to build to a price to tempt softsynth users but, in doing so, they end up providing a terrible experience.

Too bad for you that you never have any fun. The good news for you is, it is not one or the other. Something can be both fun and productive.

Not in that form factor, I'm afraid.

You've just never bothered to learn the tool. You need to put some small amount of time to learn them.

Why would I bother when they are so limited compared to even the most basic VST host?

Once learned the Elektron sequencers are fast and easy... and invite results that would not happen in a DAW pianoroll.

Such as?

[NikkiA]

Piz's 'midiPads' even provides 2 stand-alone X-Y pads if you don't want to mess about with having a full synth VSTi just for it's UI, though granted routing can still be annoying on some DAWs

[BONES]

Not as annoying as setting up a hardware synth and, in both cases, it is something you only have to do once.

[SLiC]

If you're willing to pay for it and then you'd have the purists complaining because endless encoders aren't analogue.

Midi 2 32 bit encoder resolution resolution may end that particular argument and will have the ability for the VST to talk directly to the controllers setup/display (Two-way MIDI Conversations with Profile Configuration and Property Exchange)

I am sure the big Midi Controller manufacturers are all studying the possibilities now,

Personally, I still put a huge value on not having to use a computer at al. Nothing to do with sound, I just look at computers and think about 'work' (I spend 8 hours a day sat in front of a PC!)
I am happy to pay more and have something I can just 'turn on and play' without touching a mouse, keyboard or looking for my reading glasses! I have most of major the VSTis but I play my Hydrasysnth most of the time, so the proof of what works for me is what I choose to use!

[SLiC]

Not as annoying as setting up a hardware synth and, in both cases, it is something you only have to do once.

Setting up a hardware synth? I just turned the Hydrasynth on and started playing/patching. It was the easiest to use, most expressive and best laid out synth I have had the pleasure to use

[BONES]

How is that any different with a VSTI and a controller you have already mapped? Once upon a time you had make a space in your room for the instrument, then find somewhere to plug your synth into the power, then find some cables to run to your mixer or to your amp, at least the same level of inconvenience as the one time you have to map a controller to a new VST instrument. You choose to see one as a chore and the other as nothing but the reality is both are chores.

I just look at computers and think about 'work' (I spend 8 hours a day sat in front of a PC!)

That's an absurd attitude. I spend 8 hours a day sitting in front of someone else's computer, running completely different software and doing work I have no interest in. When I get home I get to sit in front of my computer using the software I choose, to work on the things that excite me. Any similarities are irrelevant in the face of the differences. You may as well say you won't do music in the daytime because you associate daylight with your job.

I am happy to pay more and have something I can just 'turn on and play'

I wasn't aware that Hydrasynth had a built-in speaker. So I imagine what you really have to do is turn on Hydrasynth, then turn on your mixer and amp/speakers. Not really any different to turning on a computer, starting an application and switching on your amp/speakers, is it? In fact, from cold I can get Equator up and running with my Seaboard faster than I can get Uno Synth up and running because Uno Synth has to calibrate itself. Hydrasynth being digital, I imagine it has to boot it's OS and load itself, too.

(To be clear, because my USB I/O device and MIDI controller both get power from my PC, they turn on and off with the computer.)

[E_Anderson]

Midi 2 32 bit encoder resolution resolution may end that particular argument and will have the ability for the VST to talk directly to the controllers setup/display (Two-way MIDI Conversations with Profile Configuration and Property Exchange)

higher resolution encoders/faders would be huge for me, since mine are... okay, but could be better, and even though they're a little jumpy/low resolution compared to bare automation they're still amazing sound design/improvisation tools. I probably won't buy a hardware synth for a long, long time just because I can already get everything except for the "legitimacy" out of software (and then some). Maybe the sound is slightly different, yeah... And the fact I can't almost plug and play. But for my own preferences it's plenty plug-and-play enough.

I just look at computers and think about 'work' (I spend 8 hours a day sat in front of a PC!)

That's an absurd attitude.

Relax man! I agree with what you're saying, though, about sitting in front of a computer. I could sit in front of a computer until I die. Unless civilization collapses or technology moves forward, I probably will sit in front of a computer until I die. With some breaks.

[SLiC]

That's an absurd attitude. I spend 8 hours a day sitting in front of someone else's computer, running completely different software and doing work I have no interest in. When I get home I get to sit in front of my computer using the software I choose, to work on the things that excite me. Any similarities are irrelevant in the face of the differences. You may as well say you won't do music in the daytime because you associate daylight with your job.

If you think sitting down in front of a computer for 16 hours a day is healthy then

Personally I have built a dedicated sound treated studio on my house and its full of hardware synths, guitars, drum kits and amps because that my happy place...I play a 'real' guitar, a 'real' bass, a 'real' drumkit...so why not a 'real' hardware synth (the 'V' is VST standard for 'Virtual' after all). If I had to choose between my hardware and software the software would be gone tomorrow.

I am happy to pay more and have something I can just 'turn on and play'

I wasn't aware that Hydrasynth had a built-in speaker. So I imagine what you really have to do is turn on Hydrasynth, then turn on your mixer and amp/speakers. Not really any different to turning on a computer, starting an application and switching on your amp/speakers, is it?

Headphones One switch.

[E_Anderson]

When they release Phase Plant on hardware I'm down

I got to play a Prophet before, it was fun. It's different having the whole synth on your keyboard instead of just the parameters you bother to assign. I'll certainly enjoy at least getting a more comprehensive set of midi controls

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

The deal is easy to us: When we jam and get ideas: 100% Hardware. When we want to produce fast and effective for all practical purposes: 85-100% Software. Pragmatism rules. It is all very dynamic and situational, really.

[pdxindy]

That is only a predefined relationship. You cannot control them independently at the same time...

Maybe not with a single macro knob but it is very easy with an X-Y pad and I've got plenty of VSTi with those built-in - Equator, Hive, HY-Poly and that otherwise unremarkable WA Productions synth come to mind and I'm sure there are others.

Still not real time... you have to know beforehand what two parameters to assign to the X/Y pad. You cannot in the moment, spontaneously reach for any two parameters and adjust them in relation to each other... which makes it a different creative experience.

[pdxindy]

No midi controller can match the hands on immediacy of dedicated hardware controls.

Of course it can - it's the exact same f**king thing - - you turn the knob and the value of the parameter changes. If it didn't, you couldn't use it at all. What the hell is wrong with your brain that you can't make that work?

See, here we are back to the same place you always come to. You cannot accept that different people have different experiences/priorities than you and so anyone that doesn't think like you there must be something wrong with them... and then you get aggressive and personal about it. Same reason you have been suspended from KVR twice recently.

[Teksonik]

That is only a predefined relationship. You cannot control them independently at the same time.

You're moving the goal posts to suit your argument. Here is what I was replying to.....

there’s no mouse that will allow you to make a change like increasing filter cutoff while decreasing resonance at the same time,

I gave an example that yes you can use a mouse to increase filter cutoff while decreasing resonance at the same time and adjusting values can give you a wide range of control.

Can you independently control cutoff and resonance at the same time on a hardware synth with one hand ? No it would take one hand on each knob unless you want to try and reach and move each knob with one hand and that would be wonky at best. Those knobs are predefined.

Look I get it some people like to use hardware and that's fine to each his own but the "disconnect or lack of tactile response" in softsynths argument just doesn't hold water if you have a proper midi controller like for example my Akai MPK 261. I have more more connection and tactile response now than my hardware ever gave me and I can choose what knob or slider controls what parameter(s). I'm not locked into a set assignment.

I started out using hardware and I wouldn't go back to the restrictions they have. My current setup is far more flexible and powerful.

In the end there really isn't any such thing as a software synthesizer. They still require the hardware of your computer and sound card/external audio device to run. If you add in a competent midi controller then you have a hardware synth.

So all synths are hardware synths they just have a different form factor. I get the snobbery towards traditional hardware and again that's fine but as someone who has owned and played many hardware synths I can say with confidence you'll have to come up with a better argument than "tactile response or connection" if you want to claim working with traditional hardware synths is advantageous.

[pdxindy]

How is that any different with a VSTI and a controller you have already mapped?

There are no midi controllers that can map to a bunch of different software synths as well as dedicated hardware does.

I would need a modular midi controller 'kit' that allowed me to add the controls and parameters for a specific software synth, label those parameters and effectively organize them to build a dedicated controller for that synth.

Then I would have to build dedicated controllers for the other software synths I use regularly. Now that would be approaching the hands on experience of hardware synths. I would rather just go buy the hardware synths.

[pdxindy]

That is only a predefined relationship. You cannot control them independently at the same time.

You're moving the goal posts to suit your argument.

You think that cause one of your main objectives is to win arguments.

I'm discussing what I like about hardware interfaces. I like the spontaneity of a 1:1 hardware interface. I like that I can reach for and control multiple parameters in relation to each other in the creative moment, without having to pre-define them and know before hand which ones I might want and assign them to controller knobs.

I like that on my Digitone, I can hold multiple steps of the sequencer down at once and turn the filter knob to change cutoff on those held steps. I find it a fast and intuitive process.

I find both creative value and pleasure in well made hardware interfaces. I like the muscle memory that develops using dedicated interfaces. If you don't, or prefer using software synths, or using screen and mouse, or midi controllers, there is nothing to argue about that. We all have different interests and priorities.