E-Phonic Invader 2 v1.0.8 next (WIN / OSX)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
9618 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:14 am

I'm on Win7, why do I need to change?

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KVRist
278 posts since 28 Feb, 2004 from An old town in Central German Uplands

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:29 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:02 am
Piszpan wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:49 pm
@BONES
You probably have mistaken me with someone who cares for your opinion.
I thought we were having a discussion. If all you want is for people to agree with you, go somewhere else because there is not a valid reason in the world for anyone to still be using Windows 7 in 2021. I'd put it right up there with believing the Earth is flat or that it was created by God 3000 years ago.
Oh no - I had those discussions some years ago - in fact of using Win XP, 32-bit (which is IMO the best OS) or to go for 64-bit systems.
There were haters and lovers, victims and instructors and people, who said, 64-bit VST´s has a better soundquality as 32-bit plugins...

So now - why no one use the best of both worlds??
I have an Win-XP 32 bit PC with best EMu-card and DAW, I could integrate my hardware synths - and I´ve a powerful notebook with WIN 10, 64-bit, I could use all the newer Vst´s, and it´s connected with the DAW on my XP-PC - and all is optimal configurated....

In some years, another OS will be on the market and Win10 is like trash - but did someone saying, an Minimoog from 1972 is trash too??

Greets
Kujashi

KVRist
63 posts since 11 Jul, 2020

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:00 am

I'm also on w7 and a lot of producers still are...
if your audio system works like a charm under w7, there NO reason to move.
Last edited by Clem4 on Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF
3262 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:21 am

I was wondering why the subosc sounds so good, so I listened to it without any other osc. While the symbol indicates a pulse, it sounds rather different from the pulse signal on my other synth, no matter which pulse width I set. So, what wave does the subosc use?!

KVRAF
6634 posts since 28 Apr, 2004 from france

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:31 am

e-crooner wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:21 am
I was wondering why the subosc sounds so good, so I listened to it without any other osc. While the symbol indicates a pulse, it sounds rather different from the pulse signal on my other synth, no matter which pulse width I set. So, what wave does the subosc use?!
From what I see, it's pretty much a square :wink:
Image
Image

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KVRAF
3262 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:50 am

Hm, looks pretty perfect in terms of shape and corners. The pulse width is not 50:50, though, more like 53:47 more or less.

Which scope plugin did you use? I don't have any...

KVRAF
8574 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:25 am

Clem4 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:00 am
I'm also on w7 and a lot of producers still are...
if your audio system works like a charm under w7, there NO reason to move.
Totally true. But then at the same time, those producers running legacy operating systems need to accept that they’re trading a stable system for compatibility with modern software. Just like no one is forcing them to update, they can’t reasonably expect plugin developers using modern frameworks to support legacy operating systems. If software happens to be compatible with Win 7, great! If not, then the choice for the user is: live without it, or update their system/OS. Good to have choices!

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GRRRRRRR!
11967 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:43 pm

Schiffbauer wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:29 am
So now - why no one use the best of both worlds??
I have an Win-XP 32 bit PC with best EMu-card and DAW, I could integrate my hardware synths - and I´ve a powerful notebook with WIN 10, 64-bit, I could use all the newer Vst´s, and it´s connected with the DAW on my XP-PC - and all is optimal configurated....
Or you could use Bitwig, which doesn't care if a plugin is 32 bit or 64 bit. Personally, I made the decision that the easiest route was to leave all my 32 bit plugins behind and move to 64 bit. Even though I can't see a single advantage in doing so, beyond lusting after a couple of 64 bit only VSTi, it seemed like the most practical way to go, certainly preferable to running two different computers or having to endure Bitwig.
In some years, another OS will be on the market and Win10 is like trash - but did someone saying, an Minimoog from 1972 is trash too??
Yes, absolute trash. You couldn't give them away in 1983 and if you offered me one today, I wouldn't take it. Nice oscillators, terrible filter.
Clem4 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:00 am
I'm also on w7 and a lot of producers still are...
if your audio system works like a charm under w7, there NO reason to move.
So you are telling me your most recent computer purchase pre-dates the introduction of Windows 8, nine years ago? If your PC is that old, I'd suggest there is every reason to move.
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:25 am
But then at the same time, those producers running legacy operating systems need to accept that they’re trading a stable system for compatibility with modern software.
That's total bullshit. There is no trade-off, Windows 10 is at least as stable as Win7 ever was, probably more stable. It has certainly never given me even a moment's trouble and I'm using pre-release versions most of the time.
If software happens to be compatible with Win 7, great! If not, then the choice for the user is: live without it, or update their system/OS.
To be fair, I can't see why anything that runs in Win10 shouldn't run OK in Win7, Microsoft put a lot of effort into backwards-compatibility.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10, UR44C | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Viper, Equator, VG Carbon | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRAF
5838 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:58 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:43 pm
To be fair, I can't see why anything that runs in Win10 shouldn't run OK in Win7, Microsoft put a lot of effort into backwards-compatibility.
Backwards-compatibility is the other way round. An upgraded OS has new features. If a software relies on that, it would not work on an older system. On the other hand developers can avoid the new features to keep a bigger audience, and many do… Its the devs rather than Microsoft (or may I mention it - Apple)…

KVRAF
8574 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:18 am

It's not just OS features, you've also got to deal with cross-platform development frameworks which may have to depreciate certain things in order to support newer standards. Example: Mac OS having forced the depreciation of 32-bit plugins and plugin frameworks like JUCE needing to support that, likely also contributes to fewer Windows 32-bit plugins. Developers don't have infinite time to compile and retrofit plugins to legacy OS's.

I love Windows 10, but after 2025, support will drop. What does that mean? I'll be going to 11. And those Win 11 leaks don't have me too enthused at the prospect. But there's going to be folks who insist on staying behind. Just like some people still insist on staying on Windows 7 today, or even the oddball XP holdout (did these finally go away?). So we'll continue to go through this "please support your new plugin my 10+ year old OS that even Microsoft itself doesn't support" stuff. Uh, no.

At least Apple breaks compatibility so outright that it really limits those requests. "Hey, please support Mavericks!" Developer, "No, that would literally be impossible." Microsoft kind of fosters this behavior because they try so hard to make things work in order to satisfy their corporate clients.

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KVRAF
3262 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:55 am

With OS's it's like with DAW's and other software. They keep adding more and more stuff hardly anybody needs. What for? Why not just stop at a certain point and just maintain it's security? I don't think I use more than 3% of W10 features.

W10 support will end in 2025 already?! :o
Maybe there will be another alternative by then, I read that Huawei's HarmonyOS will also run on personal computers.

KVRAF
8574 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:34 am

e-crooner wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:55 am
W10 support will end in 2025 already?! :o
Maybe there will be another alternative by then, I read that Huawei's HarmonyOS will also run on personal computers.
October 14th 2025 is the end date for Windows 10. Was announced two days ago. Windows 11 will be announced on June 24th, and there's already leaks (allegedly even a leaked build).

I can guarantee you that if you're hoping for an alternative OS to Mac and Windows to work with major DAWs and plugins by 2025 that you're going to be wildly disappointed.

KVRist
63 posts since 11 Jul, 2020

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:15 am

Clem4 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:00 am
I'm also on w7 and a lot of producers still are...
if your audio system works like a charm under w7, there NO reason to move.
So you are telling me your most recent computer purchase pre-dates the introduction of Windows 8, nine years ago? If your PC is that old, I'd suggest there is every reason to move.
No, you say that and you're completely wrong. don't want to waste my time to explain to you.
October 14th 2025 is the end date for Windows 10. Was announced two days ago. Windows 11 will be announced on June 24th, and there's already leaks (allegedly even a leaked build).
If you use a dedicated computer for audio only, you do not really need updates...that's why w7 is still great for me and many other...
A lot of pro producers keep their computer, os and daw as long as possible... (except for geeks) simply because their system work well, they don't want to-re-install everything and have bad surprises...they don't have time for that. They don't need the last OS, the last DAW...
Speaking OS, w10 is not better than w7 for audio (w10 had a lot of problems the first years)... OS updates are important for security/internet for sure...and I would say, better use linux for that ;) ...and new OS w7/w10/w11 are mainly for $$$
Even if I must admit the change from xp to w7 was a real improvement :)

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GRRRRRRR!
11967 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:47 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:58 am
An upgraded OS has new features. If a software relies on that, it would not work on an older system.
Which is why I didn't say "will definitely work in every single case".
Last edited by BONES on Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10, UR44C | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Viper, Equator, VG Carbon | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRAF
2774 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:24 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:18 am
It's not just OS features, you've also got to deal with cross-platform development frameworks which may have to depreciate certain things in order to support newer standards. Example: Mac OS having forced the depreciation of 32-bit plugins and plugin frameworks like JUCE needing to support that, likely also contributes to fewer Windows 32-bit plugins. Developers don't have infinite time to compile and retrofit plugins to legacy OS's.

I love Windows 10, but after 2025, support will drop. What does that mean? I'll be going to 11. And those Win 11 leaks don't have me too enthused at the prospect. But there's going to be folks who insist on staying behind. Just like some people still insist on staying on Windows 7 today, or even the oddball XP holdout (did these finally go away?). So we'll continue to go through this "please support your new plugin my 10+ year old OS that even Microsoft itself doesn't support" stuff. Uh, no.

At least Apple breaks compatibility so outright that it really limits those requests. "Hey, please support Mavericks!" Developer, "No, that would literally be impossible." Microsoft kind of fosters this behavior because they try so hard to make things work in order to satisfy their corporate clients.
tbh from what I see, its mainly the look of Windows 11 that is different, task bar centred, and GUI changes. Various sites I read about it, they suggest W11 is more of a refined version of 10 so really backwards compatibility is going to be pretty easy to achieve. Like Win7 was the unbloated faster version of Vista, maybe 11 will be similar, not that I find W10 to be that bloated tbh.

So really I don't think W11 is much to fear, just the upgrade path probably will throw up the normal issues. Took me so many attempts to get from W7 to W10 , I was forced to clean install in the end.

Didn't Microsoft way that W10 was the last version number of Windows once ? And they'd just update it and not change anything drastically ?
Forward ever, Backward never

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