Softube Model 84 (Juno 106)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRian
518 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:18 am

rezoneight wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:04 am
One wonders why someone would spend so much time complaining and making grand pronouncements about how lame something is and how everyone who wants to use it must be stupid then not only going out and buying it but also admitting it to the people they just spent so much time arguing with and calling names. So weird but I guess this is the internet.
Of course now I have the itch to buy the damned thing and I thought it was boring... ;) I mean I said I thought it sounded great but thought it was boring and I already have the 106 on the System-8. But now that GAS is bothering me again....

KVRAF
12693 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:26 am

Don't hold your GAS in, you might get ulcers.

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KVRian
895 posts since 25 Jan, 2017

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:10 am

BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:56 am
Bugger it! I finally caved in and bought it, even though I know I'll run out of uses for it in a week. I was just messing about with it and made this really cool bass patch. I tried to recreate it in DCO-106 but I couldn't get close. It's like a slap bass with resonance, nice and punchy with real depth. I think the difference is in the Unison implementation but it's not the kind of sound I'd ever have expected to get out of Model 84, which is all the push I needed, really.
Next step: buying Softube's Model 72 for the new found love of the prodigious transistor ladder filter :love:

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KVRian
518 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:55 pm

Niowiad wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:10 am
BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:56 am
Bugger it! I finally caved in and bought it, even though I know I'll run out of uses for it in a week. I was just messing about with it and made this really cool bass patch. I tried to recreate it in DCO-106 but I couldn't get close. It's like a slap bass with resonance, nice and punchy with real depth. I think the difference is in the Unison implementation but it's not the kind of sound I'd ever have expected to get out of Model 84, which is all the push I needed, really.
Next step: buying Softube's Model 72 for the new found love of the prodigious transistor ladder filter :love:
BONES is funny because he hates the Moog ladder filter but seems to love the Knifonium ladder filter ;)

KVRian
531 posts since 13 May, 2015

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:12 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:56 am
Bugger it! I finally caved in and bought it.....
Wow! What a turn around! Bones, have you ever considered that you might be bipolar?

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KVRAF
32584 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from another dimension

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:50 pm

polarbi
Hi-de-Hi!

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GRRRRRRR!
11390 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:26 pm

This is a quick couple of bars of DCO-106, then Model 84. Believe it or not, they both have pretty much identical settings. If it doesn't play, just right-click and open it in a separate tab.

http://novakill.com/stuff/Model84_SlapBass_Demo.mp3

I like both sounds but the Model 84 patch is not something I'd have thought I could get from it at all. So it's that little glimmer of hope that gave me the excuse I was looking for to buy it.

If you want the preset, you can grab it HERE.
rezoneight wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:04 am
One wonders why someone would spend so much time complaining and making grand pronouncements about how lame something is and how everyone who wants to use it must be stupid then not only going out and buying it but also admitting it to the people they just spent so much time arguing with and calling names. So weird but I guess this is the internet.
I believe I explained that adequately in a previous post. I was really only looking for an excuse to spend the money on something with so few features, and last night I found that excuse. It's a matter of being able to live with the restrictions imposed by the lack of features and my little patching exercise last night showed me that I can probably do that.

However, I still don't understand why Softube couldn't have put in a second oscillator, another envelope or different filter modes, in the same way that Arturia, Synapse and others extend the functionality of their emulations. As with the original Junos and the PolySix, it seems a waste to hobble such a lovely sound with so few features. e.g. bx_oberhausen is probably my favourite VSTi, but if it was monophonic like a real SEM, I wouldn't have the slightest interest in it. Surely it's the sound that matters and I can't see how extending the functionality in a meaningful way doesn't make it much, much better?
NOVAkILL : Dell G7 Core i7, 32GB RAM, Win10, Zoom U24 | Studio One | Thorn, bx_oberhausen, ARP Odyssey, JP6K, Hexeract, Vacuum Pro, TRK-01, Knifonium, Equator, VG Carbon | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket.

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GRRRRRRR!
11390 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:19 pm

rezoneight wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:55 pm
BONES is funny because he hates the Moog ladder filter but seems to love the Knifonium ladder filter ;)
How do you figure that? I think Knifonium's filter is easily its weakest part. I would never even think to use it anywhere I wanted lots of deep, squelchy resonance. I've never used it for a bassline, for example. I have plenty of other synths I can call on for that kind of work, from bx_oberhausen to JP6K or Viper.

I think the essential difference between you and I is that I can see a thing for what it is, good and bad, whereas most of you seem incapable of seeing the faults with the things you like or the good things about the things you don't like. It seems that once you decide you like something, then every little thing about it has to be good, but I'm not like that. Every synth I own involves some compromise, they all have their good and their bad points. I find it is as much about deciding whether I can live with the bad things as it is about how much I can exploit the good things. e.g. As much as I love the sounds we get out of DUNE, I cannot live with the GUI or workflow, so I never use it. In fact, when my bandmate gives me something he's been working on with DUNE in it, I will usually try and find something else to do that job, just because I'd rather start from scratch somewhere else than try to tweak an existing preset in DUNE. I often think that I am probably cutting off my nose to spite my face but that's simply the way I feel about it. It's not rational but in an artistic endeavour, it doesn't have to be (which, of course, is a whole 'nuther can of worms I won't be opening today).
NOVAkILL : Dell G7 Core i7, 32GB RAM, Win10, Zoom U24 | Studio One | Thorn, bx_oberhausen, ARP Odyssey, JP6K, Hexeract, Vacuum Pro, TRK-01, Knifonium, Equator, VG Carbon | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket.

KVRAF
1693 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:58 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:26 pm
This is a quick couple of bars of DCO-106, then Model 84. Believe it or not, they both have pretty much identical settings. If it doesn't play, just right-click and open it in a separate tab.

http://novakill.com/stuff/Model84_SlapBass_Demo.mp3

I like both sounds but the Model 84 patch is not something I'd have thought I could get from it at all. So it's that little glimmer of hope that gave me the excuse I was looking for to buy it.

If you want the preset, you can grab it HERE.
rezoneight wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:04 am
One wonders why someone would spend so much time complaining and making grand pronouncements about how lame something is and how everyone who wants to use it must be stupid then not only going out and buying it but also admitting it to the people they just spent so much time arguing with and calling names. So weird but I guess this is the internet.
I believe I explained that adequately in a previous post. I was really only looking for an excuse to spend the money on something with so few features, and last night I found that excuse. It's a matter of being able to live with the restrictions imposed by the lack of features and my little patching exercise last night showed me that I can probably do that.

However, I still don't understand why Softube couldn't have put in a second oscillator, another envelope or different filter modes, in the same way that Arturia, Synapse and others extend the functionality of their emulations. As with the original Junos and the PolySix, it seems a waste to hobble such a lovely sound with so few features. e.g. bx_oberhausen is probably my favourite VSTi, but if it was monophonic like a real SEM, I wouldn't have the slightest interest in it. Surely it's the sound that matters and I can't see how extending the functionality in a meaningful way doesn't make it much, much better?
Agreed. As I mentioned before it makes me think that Softube want to drive people to their modular platform (where you also have to pay for a syncable LFO).

And thanks for the preset. You’re right, it’s hard to believe the two plugins are emulating the same synth.

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KVRian
518 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:45 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:19 pm
rezoneight wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:55 pm
BONES is funny because he hates the Moog ladder filter but seems to love the Knifonium ladder filter ;)
How do you figure that? I think Knifonium's filter is easily its weakest part.
Was being a bit cheeky but your statement is ridiculous. You said you love Knifonium. You’ve even got it in you sig. You can keep trying to blow smoke up my ass if you want but no way someone “loves” a synth without liking the filter. It’s too integral a part of the sound. Doesn’t make a difference if you use it for bass or not. I generally dont use my Sub37 for bass either.
BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:19 pm
I think the essential difference between you and I is that I can see a thing for what it is, good and bad, whereas most of you seem incapable of seeing the faults with the things you like or the good things about the things you don't like. It seems that once you decide you like something, then every little thing about it has to be good, but I'm not like that. Every synth I own involves some compromise, they all have their good and their bad points. I find it is as much about deciding whether I can live with the bad things as it is about how much I can exploit the good things.
Everyone here is like that, you’re not special that way. Lordy. I love pretty much all the gear, hardware or software, that I own. Wouldn’t have spent the money if I didn’t. But they’ve all got a wart or two. System-8 has woefully inadequate memory. It also doesn’t have aftertouch. Sub-37’s keyboard isn’t terrible but it certainly isn’t great and they should have done better for the price. My Cobalt 8 was like half the price of the Sub 37 and the same size keyboard but its got much better keys.

But I’m not the one coming on here and saying how not special something is and why waste the money only to be then later saying I bought it and I love it. I mean hell you just said how you can see a thing for what it is then right after that go on about why didn’t Softube add this, that, or the other. That’s not seeing something for what it is.

KVRAF
2995 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:58 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:56 am
Bugger it! I finally caved in and bought it, even though I know I'll run out of uses for it in a week. I was just messing about with it and made this really cool bass patch. I tried to recreate it in DCO-106 but I couldn't get close. It's like a slap bass with resonance, nice and punchy with real depth. I think the difference is in the Unison implementation but it's not the kind of sound I'd ever have expected to get out of Model 84, which is all the push I needed, really.
Massive change of heart there BONES!
You’ve been yelling how boring it is for pages.
Enjoy 😉

KVRAF
12693 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:01 pm

You can like a synth and not like it's filter though, just saying. FM8, nuff said.

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KVRAF
1958 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:06 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:56 am
Bugger it! I finally caved in and bought it, even though I know I'll run out of uses for it in a week. I was just messing about with it and made this really cool bass patch. I tried to recreate it in DCO-106 but I couldn't get close. It's like a slap bass with resonance, nice and punchy with real depth. I think the difference is in the Unison implementation but it's not the kind of sound I'd ever have expected to get out of Model 84, which is all the push I needed, really.
I tried to match a few of the original Juno-106 preset sounds between the two also, and I think part of why the Model 84 has that "punch" and "depth" is more (in some cases) because they have a hidden EQ that DCO-106 doesn't have. On its "default" setting, it's a bass boost. I haven't read the manual yet, so I don't know exactly what it's boosting (or where), but it's pretty significant.

I haven't had a chance to look at your preset, but I found that on many of the presets where the Model 84 sounds "warmer" or "thicker" than the DCO-106, that bass boost was engaged. So oddly enough, you might not have gotten that same bass sound out of a real Juno-106, either (or the Roland Cloud version).

Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators. (I'm looking for collaborators even if you don't hear something you like. I guess I just won't be hearing from you. :wink:)

KVRist
321 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:12 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:01 pm
You can like a synth and not like it's filter though, just saying. FM8, nuff said.
That's kind of a special case though. A filter on an FM synth is like legs on a snake. Knifonium is a subtractive synth, so the filter matters.
Stormchild

KVRAF
12693 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:36 pm

Arashi wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:12 pm
ghettosynth wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:01 pm
You can like a synth and not like it's filter though, just saying. FM8, nuff said.
That's kind of a special case though. A filter on an FM synth is like legs on a snake. Knifonium is a subtractive synth, so the filter matters.
Yes, it is, but still. Knifonium is a weird tube synth that is supposedly a virtual model of an actual tube synth. I can see liking a tube synth for the aggressive tone of the oscillators, Ring Mod, and VCAs, but not loving the filter. Reaktor Spark is another example of a synth that I like but I don't love the weird 8-pole filter.

I like Knifonium's filter well enough, but TBH there are times when I wish it had Divaesque model choices. There are synths that I don't like the filter mostly, but it seems weirdly usable in a narrow range. Air's Hybrid, for example.

Anyway, I'm just kibitzing.

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