Why do I seem to like free synths better ?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRist
199 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:32 am

Teksonik wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:43 am
AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:04 am
some ppl find having a large number of tools/colours etc means they spend most of the time choosing which one to use, rather than creating.
That's called paralysis of choice. I don't suffer from that. I know my tools so I don't spend any time choosing which one to use since I know which is right for the job at hand.
(Edit: Oops. Forgot to come back to this part.) I reject your premise that choice paralysis is unrelated to being creative. It is one possible cause of a creative block. If you're not engaging in a creative process due to choice paralysis, eliminating the choice paralysis can help you be more creative.
Of course everyone should use what works best for them but no one can convince me that limitations can do anything but limit creativity. At least no one has forwarded a convincing or cogent argument yet. :shrug:
Let me give you a specific concrete example from recent personal experience. In last month's One Synth Challenge, we could use any one Full Bucket synth, and I chose to use Bucket Pops specifically because I found its limitations interesting. Even something as elementary as selecting different oscillator shapes and playing them back at different frequencies based on MIDI note values is not available. I had to come up with my own solutions, and build tools to implement them. Sure, I was limited in what I could accomplish with the synth. It limited the scope of my creativity. But there was no lack of creative effort within that scope. To the contrary, I found it creatively stimulating and personally satisfying.

Now, given your comments here I'm sure that doesn't align with your experience. That's fine. But I hope you can at least understand it at an intellectual level as an example of how different people can draw creative inspiration from things that may not interest you. By all means, ask questions. Say it doesn't work for you. But maybe refrain from projecting your experience on others by default and proclaiming their experience of ways to bring out their creativity nothing but a myth.
Last edited by FrogsInPants on Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRian
1018 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:30 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:12 am
Speaking of which, Modul Air is on board my arsenal too. Great freebie , and far from dangerous, imo, but then again, it may be a very very very slow virus.
Where's the fun in that?

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KVRist
205 posts since 2 Nov, 2017

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:42 am

AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:09 am

like i said, a very few will cover most bases (sample playback/libraries not included, as we are talking synths)
Huh. Didn't realize synths couldn't include sample playback. What do I call these things that have wavetables? Or TAL Sampler?

AnX
KVRAF
9833 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 am

jasonekratz wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:42 am
AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:09 am

like i said, a very few will cover most bases (sample playback/libraries not included, as we are talking synths)
Huh. Didn't realize synths couldn't include sample playback. What do I call these things that have wavetables? Or TAL Sampler?
well, if you want to be specific, i mean samplers (sample players) that are just that, not synths that are "multi faceted"

i mean, if I wanted a realistic orchestral sound, I would use a dedicated library /player, not a WT synth.....

if i want a classic synth string/brass sound, i would reach for a VA....

clear? (pretty sure the original was anyway...)

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KVRist
205 posts since 2 Nov, 2017

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:21 am

AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 am
jasonekratz wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:42 am
AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:09 am

like i said, a very few will cover most bases (sample playback/libraries not included, as we are talking synths)
Huh. Didn't realize synths couldn't include sample playback. What do I call these things that have wavetables? Or TAL Sampler?
well, if you want to be specific, i mean samplers (sample players) that are just that, not synths that are "multi faceted"

i mean, if I wanted a realistic orchestral sound, I would use a dedicated library /player, not a WT synth.....

if i want a classic synth string/brass sound, i would reach for a VA....

clear? (pretty sure the original was anyway...)
My cheekiness doesn't indicate anything about clarity in your original statement but yes now its clear :)

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KVRAF
15738 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:05 am

AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:09 am
i can create every sound i need with prob just one, but use a few (of course, you comeback will be "it must be a limited/boring palette...it isnt)
The key point there? Every sound you need. Everybody makes different music and so we have a different definition of "every sound". If a Saw,Square,Sine,or Triangle wav makes all the sounds you need then more power to you. I bought my first simple synth decades ago and have expanded the range of sounds I use.
AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:09 am
(sample playback/libraries not included, as we are talking synths)
A sample based synth is still a synth if your definition of a synthesizer is accurate. All forms of synths make sounds that are used to make music whether it's a saw wave or a sample of the Human voice.

Look I'm not saying that someone can't be creative with a single simple synth I'm simply pushing back against the notion that using a single simple synth makes you more creative than having several or more complex synths.

Just like a painter having only one color on their palette does not make them more creative than having the entire spectrum at their disposal.

But again everybody should use what works best for their music. It's just when someone says "limitations make you more creative" I'm going to respond with "no they don't" and around and around we go. :wheee:

Anyway I've made my point so will bow out of this thread. Everybody enjoy this wonderful time we're living in as musicians where we have so many great tools at our disposal both free and paid. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

AnX
KVRAF
9833 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:16 am

Teksonik wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:05 am
.

Just like a painter having only one color on their palette does not make them more creative than having the entire spectrum at their disposal.
and nor does having a million colours make you more creative...

KVRAF
22771 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:32 am

If one's creative block is out of choice paralysis or some other problem it's a personal psychological problem.
I was blocked for a period in between two very fertile periods. I was probably depressed, constipated by something personal, evidence there of poor mental hygiene.

Regarding choice paralysis. I experience it at times in the supermarket, but music/sound is a focused endeavor and discipline. A one-synth challenge imposes a discipline, not having a lot of redundancy, particular of synthesizers in one's plugins folder imposes a discipline. It's a good thing, however you get to it.

Preferring free to paid synths qua synths is empty of meaning I think.
I think the genuine preference there, generally, is the no money bit. Because we have to have the particular paid product to compare it to, how do you know your real preference. apples to something more or less spherical argument, logically.

AnX
KVRAF
9833 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:40 am

Teksonik wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:05 am
. If a Saw,Square,Sine,or Triangle wav makes all the sounds you need then more power to you.
thanks :roll:

1. prob a miniscule amt of ppl use raw osc wavs, its about what you do with them when they leave the osc, mixing the shapes together, waveshsping, filtering, modulating etc....

2. having spent a long time with synths that allow other waveforms (such as WT synth) I've found that part of them to be pretty useless, even tedious...

ymmv, you may like to try and convince everyone that the only good sounds are "new" ones and the only good synths are "complex" ones, but the only person you are kidding is yourself.... let it go.

KVRAF
29243 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:44 am

AnX wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:40 am
2. having spent a long time with synths that allow other waveforms (such as WT synth) I've found that part of them to be pretty useless, even tedious...
The big issue with many wavetable synths is that the included wavetables pretty much... well... suck. Pigments is one of the few which has lots of usable wavetables. The Virus TI wavetables seem to be really nice as well (I use those in Pigments). The Waldorf synths are good in that regard as well, even though not perfect. Lots of unusable stuff there for me as well.

No idea. Maybe it's hard to create wavetables/waveforms which are musical. Or... the people doing them simply lack taste. I suspect the latter. :)
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRist
205 posts since 2 Nov, 2017

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:51 am

jancivil wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:32 am
If one's creative block is out of choice paralysis or some other problem it's a personal psychological problem.
I was blocked for a period in between two very fertile periods. I was probably depressed, constipated by something personal, evidence there of poor mental hygiene.

Regarding choice paralysis. I experience it at times in the supermarket, but music/sound is a focused endeavor and discipline. A one-synth challenge imposes a discipline, not having a lot of redundancy, particular of synthesizers in one's plugins folder imposes a discipline. It's a good thing, however you get to it.

Preferring free to paid synths qua synths is empty of meaning I think.
I think the genuine preference there, generally, is the no money bit. Because we have to have the particular paid product to compare it to, how do you know your real preference. apples to something more or less spherical argument, logically.
I like this explanation as it being a thing of discipline which I agree with. That being said I don't think having a folder full of synth plugins keeps one from being disciplined. As Teksonik noted thats a problem of choice paralysis. Once you've chosen and figured out which of that folder you're going to use then it becomes about discipline. And who are we kidding? Everyone has their favorites they turn to over and over again anyhow.

I also hate this idea that music is necessarily creative. Most of it is putting in the time/work (discipline) and has nothing to do with creativity. Yes maybe the initial bit is a burst of creativity but then again maybe not. Maybe you found a pleasing chord progression and build a song around that. Likely that progression has been used billions of times already. Does that make it creative? One example I keep thinking about is the video for Lingus from Snarky Puppy with the ridiculous keys solo from Cory Henry. Truly inspired right? Except did you see the other takes of that song where the solos weren't that inspired?

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KVRAF
3434 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:04 am

So, more productive rather than more creative?

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KVRist
205 posts since 2 Nov, 2017

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:46 am

e-crooner wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:04 am
So, more productive rather than more creative?
I think so yeah. Thats my own experience. Come up with a cool idea (creative) then have to bang away on it to get it to finished material. To me 90% of it is good old fashioned work.

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KVRAF
3434 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:55 am

When there are too many features and possibilities, one often gets lost due to one's counterproductive pseudo-perfectionism, always thinking one can make it even better and better by using more and more features. With a simpler synth you know when a sound is as good as it gets.
That's the main reason why I completely reject wavetable synths.

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fmr
KVRAF
10294 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:57 am

AnX wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 am
well, if you want to be specific, i mean samplers (sample players) that are just that, not synths that are "multi faceted"

i mean, if I wanted a realistic orchestral sound, I would use a dedicated library /player, not a WT synth.....

if i want a classic synth string/brass sound, i would reach for a VA....

clear? (pretty sure the original was anyway...)
Well, the "library" may be specific, but the instrument may be very well capable of much more than that.

I'm thinking any one of the big three (Kontakt, HALion , and Falcon). Any one of these is way more powerful than the vast majority of "synths" available, yet when we talk about libraries made for any one of them (there are orchestral libraries, or grand piano libraries for ALL of them) these are very specific, indeed.

Which doesn't exclude them of being "synths. :wink:
Fernando (FMR)

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