Dune 3 vs Sylenth 1 vs Seum for techno/trance

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRian
675 posts since 19 Jan, 2008

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:01 am

I have Serum and I got it because I felt and for me it is one of the most versatile synths. Also, it's really easy to use, best interface ever. But, now I'm looking at Dune 3 and Diva, one of these two are next on my list. If I have to turn back the time, I would still get Serum first. So, if you ask me, I would suggest starting with Serum. If you just started making patches yourself, Serum will be the choice being so visual on what's doing, best tool to learn on.

Another benefit of Serum is updates for life, you get Serum 2, 3, 4,.. 100,.. 99999 etc for free. A negative point could be the fact the license is NFR (not for resale), so if you intend or want at some point to sell it, you can't.

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KVRist
199 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:10 am

Teksonik wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:53 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:44 am
ben, many years ago : im gonna open a forum, for people to discuss computer based music making and even have a section devoted to "virtual instruments".
tek, the present : stop talking about virtual instruments :cry:
Vurt: since day one: I'm going to make totally pointless and useless posts in every thread. :drunk:

Talking about plugins is why we're here. Constantly arguing about This vs That vs The Other just generates pointless expressions of opinions from others when in reality the only opinion that matters is your own.

Try the demo and form the only opinion that matters...your own.

That's the point I'm trying to make. What is your point ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ6PeVnzCk
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Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

KVRist
359 posts since 25 Aug, 2019

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:11 am

Silent foreva

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KVRAF
19849 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:54 am

MegaPixel wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:17 pm
RE: Dune 3
It does have good sound quality and some nice features, but wish it came with a few more useful presets to play with in the demo (1000 with the full version and $20 for packs of 75ish). One big thing I did notice however many of the values/dials/envelope points etc from Dune3 were not accessible from BitWig so like the others I couldn't slap note effects/lfos etc on them from the daw.
Dune 3 sounds very good and has a flexible and powerful synth engine. I have it, but end up never using it cause the GUI is tedious (IMO) to work with. If one is mainly gonna use presets, then that may not matter.

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KVRist
199 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:27 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:54 am
MegaPixel wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:17 pm
RE: Dune 3
It does have good sound quality and some nice features, but wish it came with a few more useful presets to play with in the demo (1000 with the full version and $20 for packs of 75ish). One big thing I did notice however many of the values/dials/envelope points etc from Dune3 were not accessible from BitWig so like the others I couldn't slap note effects/lfos etc on them from the daw.
Dune 3 sounds very good and has a flexible and powerful synth engine. I have it, but end up never using it cause the GUI is tedious (IMO) to work with. If one is mainly gonna use presets, then that may not matter.
I'm not the best at sound design, LFO's and stuff sure, but I am bit of a preset junkie, so I typically find a preset and work with it till I get it the way I want or end up with something new which I like, or usually screw up and move on :ud:

I have similar issues with VPS Avenger, has taken me ages to work out some of it but still a lot of it baffles me, also the preset banks way to expensive and that copyright protection with codemeter renew after 90 days thing drives me a bit nuts. But there are some loveley sounds to be had with it, just wish there was more.

But oddly have a much easier time with PhasePlant and Serum with sound design, but I find Ana 2 to just click with me. Hive 2 and Synthmaster 2.x for example I am still working out, Synthmaster 2.x (everything bundle) has more presets than grains of sand on all the beaches on earth... And actually quite a lot of useful ones. But I find both their interfaces a tad complicated but in different ways. I get the easy stuff lfo's, envelopes, waveforms etc but there's more to these than I get and its going to take time (but I enjoy that :) ).

As for Dune 3's GUI/UI, it wasn't too bad, but would have liked to have more of its settings exposed to the DAW so I can get BitWig to do some tricks with it. Most of it's demo presets were pretty shait tbh...

One thing I don't like though are arp/sequence presets, I can kinda get behind an arp and maybe a sequence for example / teaching purposes, but that's why I'm using these tools, to make my own stuff, so you will usually see me fly past those presets unless I want to make one and need to work it out.

Pigments 3 was one I picked up recently on the cheap with 3 free sound packs from arturia, that thing surprised me, some lovely sounds, nice interface, I kinda just clicked with it too, but I have still got a good bit to learn about it. Pigments can be a huge cpu/memory hog with some presets though.

Image

But things are starting to just click between all different instruments now.
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Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

KVRist

Topic Starter

182 posts since 7 Aug, 2018

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm

Thank you again for your many answers and opinions, a very big thank you.

Thanks for the links, videos.

Viper, I had heard of, never looked at this vst in more detail.

Ana 2, Hive 2 sound very interesting indeed, but, I think I leave them out.

For Dune 3, I hesitate.

On the other hand, Serum or Phaseplant and Sylenth 1, even if it is a few years old, hold my full attention, as well as Spire.

Thank you again for your detailed, clear and precise answers and your participation in this post.

Regarding Pigments 3, the same for Massive X, sacred potential, but very high consumption of cpu, a criticism that is indeed quite often read.

What do you think of Arturia's V 8 collection?

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KVRist
199 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:03 pm

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
Ana 2, Hive 2 sound very interesting indeed, but, I think I leave them out.
I'm about to buy Ana 2's 2nd present bundle, but you gota go with what feels good for you.
Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
For Dune 3, I hesitate.
I would too, has good sound quality, a 1000 presets and a farily simple interface though, but I too am... hmmm erm... probably not... Maybe on a blackfriday sale of 75% lol
Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
On the other hand, Serum or Phaseplant and hold my full attention....
Between Phaseplant & Serum you have all the others covered really. Grab Vital too, and you really can make any sound you want. Little Vital video for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qQX6YGBQEA

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
Sylenth 1, even if it is a few years old, holds my full attention....
Even though I have PhasePlant, Serum and Vital, I would still like to have that instrument.
Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
Spire also holds my full attention....
Never tried that sorry, but about to give the demo a go ;)

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
Regarding Pigments 3, the same for Massive X, sacred potential, but very high consumption of cpu, a criticism that is indeed quite often read.
Pigments 3 can be fine on the cpu and ram but some presets are absolute killers, this can happen in Vital and PhasePlant too, but you will have to push PhasePlant pretty hard to get it to eat all your cpu (ram not really an issue, but all the plugins you get with it also are :o )
Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
What do you think of Arturia's V 8 collection?
I have Analogue Lab 4 & 5, Mini V3, Stage-73V and Pigments 3, all bar Pigments 3 came with my Arturia Keylab keyboard and there are some great sounds in there but I never really touch them due to the other instruments, but they do have some great sounds. As for the V8 collection I have no idea sorry.
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Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

KVRist

Topic Starter

182 posts since 7 Aug, 2018

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:28 pm

A big thank you Megapixel for your feedback.

Many thanks also for the video.

For Dune 3, I will do as you I will wait for Blackfriday for a good discount, it seems a good compromise.

I'm thinking of taking Sylenth 1, sure. On the other hand, it is difficult to decide between Serum, Phaseplant and Vital.

Serum is a must, a sacred reference it is true, for Vital, according to the videos it seems in a certain way easier to access and with immense possibility, Just like Phaseplant elsewhere.

Phaseplant when to him, with the effects fir trees it is necessary to reckon with the pack more or less 350 euros if I am not mistaken.

The price for Serum and Sylenth 1 combined. If the same purchase of Vital and Sylenth 1 is cheaper than Phaseplant for a single vst, it is true the price of the pack, the bundle is more interesting.

So, Sylenth 1 and Serum or Sylenth 1 and Vital.

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KVRist
199 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:41 pm

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:28 pm
I'm thinking of taking Sylenth 1, sure. On the other hand, it is difficult to decide between Serum, Phaseplant and Vital.
PhasePlant has a subscription so you can get it for like £10 or something per a month, try it out and if you like it buy it, its how I went.
https://kilohearts.com/products/kilohearts_subscription

Then check all the plugins / snapins that come with it, you can not just use these in phaseplant but in your daw standalone also.
https://kilohearts.com/products/kilohea ... ofessional

Serum I just jumped in and bought it.

Vital, I read so many people talking about it, I had to give it a go, now I've collected 400+ presets from the forums for free and love it.


Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:28 pm
If the same purchase of Vital and Sylenth 1 is cheaper than Phaseplant for a single vst, it is true the price of the pack, the bundle is more interesting.
If your after the most bang for your buck it's vital, odin2 (both free), then choose either serum or phaseplant. But you got a lot to choose from, you gota try the demos.
Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:28 pm
So, Sylenth 1 and Serum or Sylenth 1 and Vital.
Sylenth 1, Serum and Vital (free) & Odin2 (free). Try a 1 month sub to PhasePlant, see what you think (link above), but you wont be working it out as quick as you think, but same is true for Serum.

Sylenth 1 you will just hit the floor running.


RE: Spire
I just gave the demo a go, pretty good sound quality, a fair load of presets and quite a few good ones. And an insanse amount of preset expansions in their shop. The GUI/UI looks quite simplistic, the preset browser is ok and the dials/knows/values all seem to be picked up by my DAW for that extra bit of fun.... You got my eye on this instrument now lol. This is def no Serum / Phaseplant, its preset heaven Sylenth 1, Ana, Hive 2, etc style instrument. Has a few envelopes and lfo's etc, def not the sound designers that vital, serum and phaseplant are.

Spire + Sound Bundle $259 at the moment.
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Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

KVRist

Topic Starter

182 posts since 7 Aug, 2018

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm

Many thanks again.

Phaseplant if I'm not mistaken, the effects are usable in vst, compatible in daw.

The Daw I use is Live 11 Suite.

Good idea for the subscription, even if I don't really like the concept.

Odin2, I do not know, I will go deeper into the subject.

Congratulations on purchasing Serum.

What do you mean by speaking of Sylenth 1, a bad choice, purchase or quite the opposite an excellent vst?

Spire seems like a good choice as well, compared to Sylenth 1.

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KVRist
199 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:38 pm

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm
Phaseplant if I'm not mistaken, the effects are usable in vst, compatible in daw.
Yep any DAW that can support VST formats.
Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm
The Daw I use is Live 11 Suite.
Thats ableton right? Ye VSTs are fine in that. I use BitWig, some of the guys that worked on ableton left and built bitwig... Very similar DAWs but yet quite a bit different lol

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm
Odin2, I do not know, I will go deeper into the subject.
It's free, can't really go wrong, there is no paid version of it...
https://www.thewavewarden.com/odin2

RE: Another free VST (Anything by uhe are pretty much damn good instruments)
zebralette, its free, it's like a lite version of Zebra 2. Worth giving it a go.
https://u-he.com/products/zebralette/

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm
Congratulations on purchasing Serum.
Ah I got it a while back, but thanks.

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm
What do you mean by speaking of Sylenth 1, a bad choice, purchase or quite the opposite an excellent vst?
Sylenth 1 is an excellent VST, for the styles of music we are into it's a good buy and you hit the road running using it, as in you just start playing (no sound design). Sound design can take up a lot of your time, which is why I go preset hunting and then play with the sound design aspects of those VST instruments that can do it.

Trancer wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm
Spire seems like a good choice as well, compared to Sylenth 1.
Ok after playing a bit more with Spire... And listening to the shop sound preset bundles/banks... It's a maybe (for me)... If it was Spire or Dune 3 it would be a tough choice, I think you get a lot more with Dune 3 but Spire has a lot of presets which you can buy (not cheap) which are constructed based on trance/edm and tunes we have heard and loved. Another black friday / cyber monday deal decision....

As for Spire in comparison to Sylenth 1, not sure that would be fair due to age but I've always loved the sounds Sylenth 1 has put out.

Spire, Ana2, Hive 2, Zebra 2, Diva, etc they are all kinda like next gen Sylenth 1 (more of this and that)...

RE: Sound bank demos and youtube previews
You got to watch these demos of the preset bundles on youtube, they are all cooked up, mixed up and setup to be in their perfect use cases... When you load them up as an instrument, don't be surprised that it's not all it cracked up to be. They also are a bit expensive, not as bad as VPS Avengers but some are quite costly, also after looking at 2 or 3 of the bundled ones I was not so impressed as the ones they got in the shop. But it is a great sounding instrument. I think it's actually simpler than Dune 3.

Very quick and messy play around with spire for you... There's a noise that plays every so often in the demo version...
https://youtu.be/XBy5NYCxqE8
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Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

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KVRist
199 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:50 pm

RE: CPU & RAM
I wouldn't be too worried about your CPU and RAM, you see a lot of youtubers using mac laptops and apple have been using crap hardware for years now (no new, top of the range, recently released stuff), unless you count the £50,000 lumps of junk they sell to the Elon Musks of the world lol. And they are way under powered, 16GB is fine, a HD is fine, you don't really need an SSD or NVME SSD etc, things will load, might be a little slower but they will load. CPU will get used up, but I've got tracks using like 4 instances of vital, 3 instances of pigments, phaseplant, and then the rest with ana2 and kontakt etc. If you get glitches you can always up your sound buffer for that track, but on output it will be fine rendered to wav/mp3 anyway.
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Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

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KVRist
389 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:15 pm

Dune 3
Serum is alright but I feel that Dune 3 has a much easier to learn interface and can go suuuuuper deep in sound design when you feel ready.
It's also really light on the cpu.

Sylenth 1 is great as well but lacks a lot of features for the price. Had I known it wasn't really worth it back when I got it I would have just gone with Dune 3 and called it there.

KVRian
1253 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:09 pm

MegaPixel wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:03 pm
I would too, has good sound quality, a 1000 presets and a farily simple interface though, but I too am... hmmm erm... probably not... Maybe on a blackfriday sale of 75% lol
Not quite 75%, but since we have Brexited, Thomann no longer charge UK customers VAT on digital purchases so during Synapse's 40% sale, you can save an additional 20% on top. This means Dune can be purchased for about £64 (and Obsession/The Legend for £37/36).
Always Read the Manual!

AnX
KVRAF
9825 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:12 pm

buy everything and all soundbanks

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