One Synth Challenge #149: VeeSeeVSTRack (Voting Started!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
KVRist
186 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:09 am

I find the analogy between stand-alone VCV Rack and hardware synths in OSC 143 appropriate. (And yes, save the VCV patches, as that's an area where the analogy breaks down.) Given the differences in functionality and available modules, I also agree that Windows users should not be required to use VeeSeeVST if they would prefer to use stand-alone VCV.

KVRer
20 posts since 1 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:20 am

I agree pretty much across the board with @RichardSemper, @Leonard_Bowman, and @FrogsInPants. Everything that's been said is quite reasonable (and well-reasoned, for that matter).

It seems that a large portion of the ambiguity comes from whether or not one considers VCV Rack as a DAW or an instrument. Can everything be done inside VCV Rack to produce a shareable music file? Yes. That said, I think most of us would agree that VCV Rack isn't a DAW in the traditional sense. So, if we treat it as a stand-alone instrument--comparable to a hardware synth like in OSC 143, as Leonard pointed out--then most, if not all, ambiguity is removed. I feel this is the most logical way to proceed.

User avatar
KVRist
272 posts since 29 Nov, 2019

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:10 am

Agreeing with the above, esp. given the fact that mac users would otherwise be at a severe disadvantage. Creates one new ambiguity, though: Should windows users restrict themselves to one version or the other, or would using both be acceptable ? With REAPER it's very easy ( as well as tempting ) to do the latter ; VCV rack can function as a rewire instrument using the ReaRoute audio driver.

edit: I tried the last option using the older 0.6c VCV rack and the bridge plugin, which is not supported any more in version 1
Last edited by ELEX on Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
KVRian
539 posts since 23 Mar, 2011 from Schwerte, Germany

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:15 am

ELEX wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:40 am

On the subject of editing reaper-vstplugins64.ini:
There's also the option to manually add tags and numbers in the reaper-vstplugins64.ini entries. Here's the entries from my file showing the 10-digit numbers and tags concerned ( bold ) Any number that's not already in reaper-vstplugins64.ini will probably do, if the plugin is able to work and the problem is a scanning issue.

veeseevstrack_effect.dll=C0DB283D2912D501,1735812985,VeeSeeVST Rack 0.6.1 (bsp) (8ch)
veeseevstrack_instr.dll=166453382912D501,1983212406,VeeSeeVST Rack 0.6.1 I (bsp) (8ch)!!!VSTi
Thanks, ELEX, for the .ini listings. Yesterday I already contemplated asking for the missing numbers etc. Intuition told me that manually editing the file wouldn't work; so I refrained from it.

Long story short: I tried and it doesn't work. the entries get erased at start up and .dlls still fail scanning. I will see if I can work my way into the original rack and try to do a live editing session for OSC.
Image

KVRer
9 posts since 30 May, 2021

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:41 am

Luckily I don't have any problems with the VST. It loads fine through Tone2 Nanohost and I am having fun with it but I would like to ask if we are permitted to use some modules that have build in sounds like for instance the Snare-N module which has a really nice electro snare that I mangled a bit with a frequence shifter module and I like the result.

KVRAF
1704 posts since 7 Mar, 2014

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:13 am

@RR - shame. I guess it's going to be an Re-dist C++ library thing - can't think it's be much else ...
This is what I have on my machine to make everything work!!!!!!!!!

Image

dB

KVRer
20 posts since 1 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:41 am

To mac users: any of you using a virtual audio device to route VCV Rack into your DAW? I've come across two seemingly legit ones so far, Ground Control and Black Hole. Thoughts?

KVRer
9 posts since 26 May, 2015

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:32 pm

doctorbob wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:22 am
I am assuming the usual rules about not using a sampler and samples is still in effect? But, if there are drum machine modules (not looked yet) which use actual drum samples, would they be allowed.
To me it seems that using any samples (including drums) would violate the spirit of the OSC, even if technically the "no use of samples" rule might be circumvented by the "as long as the modules follow the spirit of OSC rules, namely, that they are freely available and non-commercial" stipulation for OSC149. There are a bunch of free sample-oriented modules available for VCV Rack, but that would seem to be bending the rules beyond the breaking point. Isn't the whole point of OSC that all sounds should be synthesized? Once samples are allowed it seems like pretty much anything goes.

On the other hand, I think modules that provide modulation effects that might normally not be kosher (e.g. chorus, etc.) could be allowed.

User avatar
KVRAF
5838 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:46 pm

kylebenjamin wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:41 am
To mac users: any of you using a virtual audio device to route VCV Rack into your DAW? I've come across two seemingly legit ones so far, Ground Control and Black Hole. Thoughts?
It would not make a difference how you route audio into the DAW. I have to see if the ancient VCV bridge still works, which would be another possibility…
I guess we will still get a lot of “one instance” entries this round… I probably will go the generative route and the real piece would be the patch and not some minutes of a recording of it. I hope I’ll find the time for it, as July is dense at the moment…

User avatar
KVRist
272 posts since 29 Nov, 2019

Post Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:53 am

The bridge plugin is deprecated and does not work with version 1.x any more. It does with 0.x . On Win 7, anyway.

User avatar
KVRist
246 posts since 9 Jun, 2020

Post Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:49 am

RichardSemper wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:49 am
kylebenjamin wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:33 am
Anyone know if there has been a decision made on whether Mac users--who have to use the stand-alone VCV Rack--can record, mix, and/or master in a DAW? Or, should all activities been done strictly in VCV Rack?

It's possible @bjporter put out a comment on this, so my apologies if I missed it.
This seems to be a technical grey area specific to this challenge.

From the rules:
- Layering several instances of the synth is allowed.
- synth bouncing are allowed but only where the EXACT same result could have been achieved using the original synth: - This means that for example pitching and reversing is not allowed; sampling a bass drum in order to get a consistent sound is not allowed either.

As the VCV Rack is a standalone application perhaps bouncing entire tracks to a single DAW as stems to allow for final mixing would not fall foul of the existing rules? What do you all think?
My view is that adjusting levels would be okay even though that's technically audio manipulation, and moving the audio file so that it starts in the right place would also be okay, but copying the audio file to repeat it would not.

I'm slightly more troubled by effects since it feels a lot more of a grey area - granular effects aren't normally allowed outside the synth, but inside VCV it seems like they would be technically within the rules. But granular effects are effectively resampling so also still against the rule about not using samples.

On the other hand, if it's possible to generate a sound and resample it live- not bouncing it to audio and then resampling afterwards, but resampling the sound live within VCV as it's being generated - then I'd think that was pretty clever and would probably give someone a high score for doing it. Even though that's basically the same as using a granular module. Which is why I'm confused.


Edit: Just realised I described a looper :dog: Doh. Thank you for all being kind and not pointing and laughing.


I should probably just get on and make something. :harp:
Last edited by Double Tap on Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

KVRer
21 posts since 16 May, 2021

Post Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:37 am

After looking at various options getting VCV rack into Cubase in a flexible way, I think I'll go the generative route in the end, using VCV Rack to record. Maybe start with a traditional Krell patch, or something with MI Marbles.

User avatar
KVRist
186 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:26 am

Double Tap wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:49 am
I'm slightly more troubled by effects since it feels a lot more of a grey area - granular effects aren't normally allowed outside the synth, but inside VCV it seems like they would be technically within the rules. But granular effects are effectively resampling so also still against the rule about not using samples.

On the other hand, if it's possible to generate a sound and resample it live- not bouncing it to audio and then resampling afterwards, but resampling the sound live within VCV as it's being generated - then I'd think that was pretty clever and would probably give someone a high score for doing it. Even though that's basically the same as using a granular module. Which is why I'm confused.
Generally, effects that would not be permitted as external effects are allowed if they are part of the synth. Heavy distortion, comb filters, chorus, pitch shifting, time stretching, whatever. I think granular effects and sampling should fall under this as well, as long as the material they operate on is generated within the synth. I don't know whether there's a consensus on that, though. It doesn't come up much because they aren't usually options.

User avatar
KVRist
272 posts since 29 Nov, 2019

Post Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:06 am

Sampling, in the context mentioned by FrogInPants above, came up with the looping sampler in Monique, which did indeed sample the synth itself and was explicitly allowed.

User avatar
KVRist
80 posts since 27 Oct, 2020

Post Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:22 am

ELEX wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:53 am
The bridge plugin is deprecated and does not work with version 1.x any more. It does with 0.x . On Win 7, anyway.
I'm using the 64bit bridge dll from 0.6.2c with latest vcv rack. it's buggy but works most of the time. If it stops working (usually when I load vcv or ableton I have to go through the process of setting this up in the right order again). Seems to play nice with Ableton on my PC but not so much with Logic according to other reports.

I'm loving the huge range of different free modules compared to voltage modular but I am missing the seemless integration with a DAW!!

Some useful tips I've learnt so far this week:
Lowering the framerate eases the CPU load.
Ctrl and click an out cable for routing multiple outs.
8face and macro are great for recording parameter changes and controlling multiple parameters.
Right clicking midi to enable polyphony (vcv rack)
A lot of modules have right click settings.

Return to “Instruments”