rob papen - predator 3

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:53 pm

THE INTRANCER wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:23 pm
So when he says in the video that some people have reported it being sluggish, it's in that instance where it is and it's weird that he doesn't notice it.
You can see the sluggishness any time he works in the Wave Draw area.

I wonder if Rob only works with his own synths and really doesn't notice the sluggishness in comparison to other synths. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

EnGee
KVRAF
7632 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Post Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:37 pm

I think I understand now what you mean!

I noticed lag in the video although I don't have that much, but still not smooth and responsive as "normal". Yes, I found it strange he didn't notice it because it's much noticeable than in my PC!

kmonkey
KVRAF
4247 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Post Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:17 pm

Awesome news. Looking forward to lag update and different size.

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2218 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:45 pm

Teksonik wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:53 pm
THE INTRANCER wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:23 pm
So when he says in the video that some people have reported it being sluggish, it's in that instance where it is and it's weird that he doesn't notice it.
You can see the sluggishness any time he works in the Wave Draw area.

I wonder if Rob only works with his own synths and really doesn't notice the sluggishness in comparison to other synths. :shrug:
that is, i think a redraw, because of what is under the hood, what i tried to ask, in the chat. because there is also a partial editor, 63 partials, the redraw can be a re-calculation, but i am not sure, this behavior you see also in other synths, that re-calculate, with partials. not really expert talk, my head!

or perhaps you see another sluggish behavior..

EDIT: i don't have a demo of Predator 3, nor i own it, i will eventually. so i can't check the behavior myself, nor how i can guess how it works under the hood..
so a grain of salt..
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Caine123
KVRAF
6765 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:20 am

rob papen team still cannot make a installer, i mean how bad can this be? i mailed them few years ago already for win installers.

1. you cannot install 32bit and 64bit in different folders in one step, you need to start the installer twice LOL
2. you point the installer to the directory e.g. vstfiles\rob papen\predator 3
you know what he installs? vstfiles\rob papen\predator 3\rob papen\predator 3

how crappy, if you want a well structured folder an installer from rob papen comes in and f*cks it up. gonna mail them again what this crap should be. it isnt hard to make a standard installer.
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Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:40 am

WasteLand wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:45 pm
that is, i think a redraw, because of what is under the hood, what i tried to ask, in the chat. because there is also a partial editor, 63 partials, the redraw can be a re-calculation, but i am not sure, this behavior you see also in other synths, that re-calculate, with partials. not really expert talk, my head!
Take for example drawing partials in DUNE 3's WT editor. It is a smooth and nearly instantaneous visual reaction. The partials are drawn smoothly and the resulting waveform in the background is updated in real time. Of note I'm using a much larger GUI for DUNE 3 and only the 100% size for Predator 3 so what is being drawn is larger in D3.

But in Predator 3 on the same system the response in not instantaneous. There is a considerable lag between the time you move your mouse and when the partials are drawn and it's not drawing a waveform in the background.

Now that doesn't make Predator 3 unusable but it is visually disconcerting and makes it somewhat difficult to program. Not impossible but needlessly difficult.

The bigger question is why there is a lag at all? P3 is not a particularly CPU hungry synth so if it's a design decision to save CPU then it's not really needed especially when you're just designing patches.

If there is some bug or inefficiency in the code then that should be addressed especially if the intent is to make P3 more CPU friendly.

So the bottom line for me is the Lag would not prevent me from purchasing the P3 upgrade but it certainly doesn't encourage me to do so. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:47 am

Caine123 wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:20 am
2. you point the installer to the directory e.g. vstfiles\rob papen\predator 3
you know what he installs? vstfiles\rob papen\predator 3\rob papen\predator 3
I always just point any installer to my VST folder (if the installer doesn't read the registry entry and pick it up automatically).

In this case it is D:\64 Bit Plugins. Then I just let the installer do what it needs to do. I don't need to set up sub-folders for every developer but if the installer creates them so be it.

That has worked perfectly for me for a very long time.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Caine123
KVRAF
6765 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:10 am

i got some heavy lags in fl20 :/
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Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:37 pm

All you can do is let RP support know. He posted this on his FB page:

"What of the GUI is laggy? Do you mean the 3D graphic display, or the waveforms in the Oscillators, or the 'animated' dials?
Or is it the dial movement with the mouse?
Is it VST, VST3. AU, or AAX?
It would be handy to have a bit more information".
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

THE INTRANCER
KVRAF
2522 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:00 pm

Teksonik wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:37 pm
All you can do is let RP support know. He posted this on his FB page:

"What of the GUI is laggy? Do you mean the 3D graphic display, or the waveforms in the Oscillators, or the 'animated' dials?
Or is it the dial movement with the mouse?
Is it VST, VST3. AU, or AAX?
It would be handy to have a bit more information".
Someone responded on the FB page but Rob Papen did not return a reply to him.
Marc Davis
Rob Papen The Lag occurs here with the Dials and Wave Screen display. I use the VST2. The thread at KVR holds far more information than I can post here. You don't have to respond there but reading the thread will give you more complete information,
I basically mentioned the same thing.. in my post on youtube. Rob replied 7 hours ago...

"The knobs are laggy when you try and turn them whilst playing the synth and wave display is also laggy. This doesn't happen with Dune 3 when drawing waveforms and playing or Hive 2 when rotating the knobs whilst playing at the same time. I can see how laggy the knobs are visually in the video you have made above. Look on the Predator 3 KVR thread for other people's comments about this."

Rob Papen reply:
" We are looking into this, and currently from one user we had this feedback: "I have two computers and only the Ryzen with an intern GPU shows this behavior". So it seems to be computer related. But we dive into it. "
I dunno, it's like Rob is being fed wrong information from one user. It's not computer specific, it's a problem with the plugin regardless of the computer and specification of it.

I have a high powered GPU in a desktop PC, not a GPU on a CPU type. Lag happens on it.

My guess is that there is something fundamentally wrong in that the code has changed. Something has been added which has increased the amount of processing needed. Is Predator 3 single core or multicore... Given the age of Predator I suspect a single core n the processing. That may just be the problem. I know from experience that when you add modules in Reaktor, it increases the CPU load. So something similar may be going on here internally with Predator. If it's not using OpenGL acceleration as like Parawaves Rapid does then this may be the problem here as well.
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inkwarp
KVRian
887 posts since 16 Jan, 2012 from UK

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:52 pm

Jeez.
How many people need to bring this up before Mr Papen fixes this issuse.
I've already stopped using it.
It's ridiculous to have such an issue in a 'full number' update.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:10 am

I'm sure Rob and Jon are working on the issue. If they can't reproduce the problem then it's going to be harder for them to find a solution.

Makes me wonder if they have a beta team or need a larger one because someone should have spotted the lag and GUI size issue at 1920x1080.

They have always struck me as very nice guys who do care about their products so it's not like they're just sitting back and saying "deal with it".

Let's have some patience. Rob said there will be an update at the end of the week so we'll see what happens then. At any rate neither issue makes Predator 3 impossible to use just unpleasant.

But having said that I'll hold off updating until at least the GUI size issue is addressed.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:33 am

THE INTRANCER wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:00 pm
My guess is that there is something fundamentally wrong in that the code has changed. Something has been added which has increased the amount of processing needed. Is Predator 3 single core or multicore... Given the age of Predator I suspect a single core n the processing. That may just be the problem. I know from experience that when you add modules in Reaktor, it increases the CPU load. So something similar may be going on here internally with Predator. If it's not using OpenGL acceleration as like Parawaves Rapid does then this may be the problem here as well.
The thing is Predator 3 is not CPU demanding at all especially when compared to say Pigments 3.

If RP is intentionally slowing down graphics to save CPU as has been alleged earlier in this thread then I don't think that's necessary at all.

Even on this test system which is an old i5 with onboard graphics the demand is reasonable so it doesn't seem like there is a link to high CPU demand and the lag in graphics.

I normally don't install demos on my studio computer but might just do so to see what happens there as it does have GTX 1050ti graphics.

I'm going to put in a support ticket and volunteer to help figure out what's going on. I suggest others do the same.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:25 pm

Can those of you who are complaining about Lag issues in Predator 3 please post what graphics card or adapters you are using?

I'll try to go back and PM some of you to see what you're using. I know my system with onboard Intel graphics has more lag than the system with nVIDIA graphics card.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
Teksonik
KVRAF
16477 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:43 am

Nobody? I've only heard back from one person. For those of you complaining about the Lag in Predator 3 this is your chance to help Rob find a solution or least discover what's going on.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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