How easy is the Korg Wavestation to use?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
1924 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:24 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:08 am
Then why is the LFO doing nothing when I set it to modulate between 2 oscillators in one part? A simple 2 osc set up. Like I said, it works if i set the mod source to the wheel. But if I set to the LFO I can't hear any effect, even if i change the rate. Even if i set it to 127%
Whichever LFO you are using, check it's settings. If you have an Initial Amount of 0, there is no amount of modulation happening - turn it up to 127, and turn the rate up from 0 as well. Also there is a depth and a rate mod source, which may also be having an affect.

Again, it's hard from me to reverse engineer a patch where the settings are completely unknown to me.
ghostwhistler wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:08 am
ghostwhistler wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:56 am
What does the mix envelope do
I can't see anything you've said that explains the mod envelope setting.
The "mix envelope" is the vector mix envelope. It controls the position of the vector mix over time, which is the joystick position that determines the mix of oscillators. The Vector Position and Vector Mix Envelope make up the "Vector Synthesis" part of the WS.

This post earlier explains it: viewtopic.php?p=8175947#p8175947
ghostwhistler wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:08 am
There is no manual for this that I can find on Korg. The only one that exists is for an earlier edition of the Legacy collection and it is extremely lacking. It doesn't mention mod envelopes at all, for example
In the first Legacy WS manual, the MIXENV (mix envelope) is described on pages 32, 33 and 34.

Plus the original hardware WS manuals were bundled with the software as well, which goes into more detail about the WS if you want more detail about the various pages and options etc.

KVRist

Topic Starter

456 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:04 pm

The manual explains nothing. It's just "X: this is the X function". Stuff like that is poor writing.

I have no idea how any of this works nor what the terms mean. I have no idea what they mean by 'linear keyboard' since they don't explain it. The LFO doesn't affect the modulation at all, regardless of how it's set. Some patches don't sound when you move the joystick to highlight that particular oscillator.

This is so frustrating. It's ridiculous that Korg cannot be bothered to explain anything

User avatar
KVRAF
1924 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:14 pm

Like anything new, it takes a while to learn and to understand the concepts, where everything is and how they work. That's a normal part of learning - it takes a bit of time and a bit of effort, and then it starts to click.

The manuals are reference manuals - the whole point of them is to explain what features do, not a tutorial to teach you sound programming as such, which is probably what you want. But there is a lot of info and more space to explain concepts in the original WS and WS SR manuals. Many hundreds of pages of Korg explaining stuff - if you can be bothered to read any of it... ;)

KVRist

Topic Starter

456 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:19 pm

If you have a link to these hundreds of pages then please post it.

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KVRAF
4536 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:25 pm

I am wondering if the hardware is the same regarding the 8 zones , can these be adresss mutlitimbral or just for layering ?
All in all the strucuture isn't that hard once you know the hierarchy ( altough I do think my tg 77 is easier :)
patch = 8 zones
1 = zone can be 1,2 or 4 osc's wich can be animated in a vector field
Osc's can also be a wavescanning osc's
Pretty mindblowing considering this synth is from the early 90,s
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRAF
1924 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:02 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:19 pm
If you have a link to these hundreds of pages then please post it.
Yes, I have all the PDFs on my computer, but they are all easily available online - I don't think you need me to google them for you or upload and link them. The main manuals also came with the Legacy WS download - although I'm not sure if they still bundle them with the current version offhand. The Reference Guide is the reference manual, but there is also the Player's Guide which is a bit more tutorial/overviewey - and is worth a read for anyone wanting a more helpful tutorial overview of the WS.

Sod it, I googled them for you anyway: "korg wavestation manual", first result:-
https://www.korg.com/us/support/download/product/1/224/

The SR manual is also worth grabbing - it's more or less the same thing, but has a bit more diagrams etc and covers features not in the original keyboard version, like all the extra banks etc.

See also:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... techniques
(There's a good WS 2-part series that I can't find).
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:25 pm
I am wondering if the hardware is the same regarding the 8 zones , can these be adresss mutlitimbral or just for layering ?
It's more or less the same. No, a Performance is not multi-timbral (though parts/zones can *transmit* on different MIDI channels so the WS is a good master keyboard), but the WS *does* have a multitimbral mode where you can specify up to 8 Performances to play multitimbrally - with the usual expected FX restrictions - ie, you only have 2 FX units, so you have to specify one FX setup for all 8 performances, you don't magically get 16 FX units in multi mode.

However, the software doesn't include that, because you can have as many instances of it as you like, with no effects or polyphony restrictions, so it makes no sense to include it.
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:25 pm
Pretty mindblowing considering this synth is from the early 90,s
The hardware has 32-voice polyphony, but it's actually possible on that old hardware to make *1 note* require 64-voices of polyphony. The software is better, because you can actually do it. :) (And have multiple instances, of course!)

User avatar
KVRAF
4536 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:10 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:04 pm
The LFO doesn't affect the modulation at all, regardless of how it's set. Some patches don't sound when you move the joystick to highlight that particular oscillator.

Make sure to check initial amount on the lfo page
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRAF
4050 posts since 6 Nov, 2009

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:17 pm

FL Studio should let you map an Xbox controller to the joystick plugin, mapped to the Wavestation joystick.

User avatar
KVRAF
4536 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:10 am

I took the opportunity to replicate the wavestation in the roland integra , almost everything except the wavesequencing is reproducable ( you can also do this on the xv5080 )
The are four partials and we need two gain mutlipliers for the vector field (onfor the x-axis , and one for the y-axis ) , luckily each partial has both a tva level and an output level .
So we assign these in the modmatrix ( just choose a cc numer ) , with the mod amount of two partials inverted .
We can now crossfade between two pair of partials , now assigning another cc for the y-axis (output) for the full vector experience , where each corner represetns the partial at full level
The only thing missing is automating the vector field directly , but for that we can just automate the x-y fied ( two cc's )
We can take this even a step further and apply this procedure on patches ,it sounds great
Same stuff as written above , x-axis = cc 7 volume , y axis = cc11 (expression )
Awesome stuff
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRian
671 posts since 25 Sep, 2014

Post Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:41 am

arkmabat wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:17 pm
FL Studio should let you map an Xbox controller to the joystick plugin, mapped to the Wavestation joystick.
I remembered that MIDI LFO tools like ModulationProcessor and, uh, XFER's LFO Tool exist and I have a couple. So just modulate the joystick slowly with that and I pretty much get what I want. Kindof a pity it's not built into the VST but all good on my end.

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KVRAF
1924 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Post Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:50 am

dumbledog wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:41 am
So just modulate the joystick slowly with that and I pretty much get what I want. Kindof a pity it's not built into the VST but all good on my end.
I'm not with you here, on modulation missing from the plugin?

The joystick position (vector mix) has it's own looping mix envelope in the VST. It can also be modulated by all the available mod sources like LFOs. It also responds to CC16/17 (both axes), and can be sequenced or controlled by MIDI hardware (you can probably use automation on the plugin parameters too).

What modulation are you trying to do with external tools that you are missing from the plugin?

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KVRian
671 posts since 25 Sep, 2014

Post Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:51 am

Just something that doesn't necessarily loop is all. The MIDI processor I'm using has a nice sine wave LFO that self-modulates, so I can take two of those, put them out of sync and just have the joystick lazily drift around.

Kindof fun to watch too.

Image

KVRist
216 posts since 4 Jun, 2020 from USA

Post Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:04 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:26 am
Chrisk-K wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:25 pm
Well, the Wavestation is super easy to use if you don’t want to create your own sounds. Even Tony Banks simply used presets on Genesis songs. There are thousands of WS performances and patches readily available, so why bother to program?
Did he use the wavestation with genesis?

Are those performances/patches available for the VST, since that was the subject of this discussion.
The WS VST has all the performances that Banks used with Genesis (eg, Hold on my heart, Fading light) because he used Korg presets (especially those on expansion cards). Just search Google.

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KVRian
671 posts since 25 Sep, 2014

Post Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:44 pm

This whole time I thought all those Genesis albums in the 80s were actually Phil Collins solo albums. I learned something today.

KVRAF
5476 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Post Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:02 pm

A quick peruse through this thread confirms what I remember about learning the WS (must be 30 yrs ago now)...a complete and utter bastard to program. :hihi:

The plugin is definitely easier though. Same programming but at least you have more than that godawful LCD screen on the keyboard and 4 buttons plus a dial. I remember it taking me actual days to program patches that were any good. It really just takes lots of time to do it and find your way around, but it really is worth the headache. The WS makes/made sounds like no other synth. Utterly digital and one of the few synths that I really liked for the digital sound. Sublime patches when you get into the detail. I used to have ambient pads that would take something like 3 minutes before they cycled round to the start again. :love:

TBH I'll probably throw my old WS out soon - its screen is nearly dead, keyboard is sticky on too many keys and I now have the VST and a shiny new Wavestate - which is f**king spectacular, by the way. I'm a hardcore WS fanboy so I knew I'd like it, but f**k me sideways - it's stunning! In fact I haven't even used the Wavestate in a track properly yet because every time I play it I just get stuck messing about and making sounds - can't concentrate on making a structured track with it.

I could fix my WS but it's just not worth it IMO. At least with the VST though you get a whole screen to edit with. The advice is right about init patches. But I also remember I deconstructed existing patches to figure out how it worked - the secret to doing that is to solo the wave you're working on. Keep the other waves running and you'll get bogged down.

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