Plogue OPS7 (bit-accurate DX7 emulation!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
37 posts since 18 Jan, 2016

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:15 pm

davidv@plogue wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:42 pm
Oh shoot, I added it in PortaFM 1.096 but didn't get around to backporting it to SFC and MD. Its really an quick UI file fix that I didnt have time to change.
I hadn't even noticed the little MTS-ESP button in the settings page! Very exciting. :party:

KVRist
162 posts since 5 Sep, 2011

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:17 pm

davidv@plogue wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:52 pm
fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:33 pm
You defintely should follow a much more graphical approach. After all, we are not in the eighties anymore and the advantage of using a computer is to be able to "see" things. What's the advantage of just seeing knobs and text boxes?
I'm afraid you do not know the work involved in making the sorts of UIs you want. You will have to look elsewhere I'm afraid. If I had the budget of other developers I wouldn't hesitate to put more thoughts in our UIs. With our size we focus on the sound and on the research.
I do like the UI, as it is really in line with Ableton which I also love for its simplicity, don't ever go the Arturia's skeuomorphism route please :pray:

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KVRAF
21939 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:22 pm

davidv@plogue wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:52 pm
I'm afraid you do not know the work involved in making the sorts of UIs you want.
Is Plogue using JUCE? If so, it should be relatively straightforward to add some diagrams in a dropdown menu, like in UVI Falcon for example:

Image

In the next version of Surge (Surge XT), we are using JUCE's custom menu drawing to add clickable buttons with icons to certain menus, in order to add more functionality while making them more condensed. For example:

Image

And the way to do this is basically outlined right here. :)

KVRian
703 posts since 13 Feb, 2013

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:40 pm

Wow, how could I miss this one!

I admire non offence advertisement, but I always miss announcement from Ploque. Be it new updated or new products. And I even subscribed to the newsletter and didn't get anything.

Instant buy. Love the Ploque spirit and quality approach.


edit: sorry for the typos... fixed them
Last edited by midi_transmission on Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KVRian
807 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:59 pm

midi_transmission wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:40 pm
Wow, how could I miss this one!

I admire not offence advertisement, but it's always miss announcement from Ploque. Be it new updated or new products. And I even subscribed to the newsletter and didn't get anything.

Instant buy. Love the Ploque spirit and quality approach.
I didn't get the time to do the newsletter yet. So many hats, sorry :/
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

KVRian
703 posts since 13 Feb, 2013

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:11 pm

No worry, but you deserve way more attention.

I guess it speaks for the quality when a customer comes to you without advertisment and not the otherway around. It's like how it should be. :-D

KVRist
187 posts since 31 May, 2017

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:11 pm

fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:33 pm
You defintely should follow a much more graphical approach. After all, we are not in the eighties anymore and the advantage of using a computer is to be able to "see" things. What's the advantage of just seeing knobs and text boxes?

Graphical editing of envelopes, being able to copy and paste elements between operator, being able to see and choose from a graphical representation of the algorithms, being able to see and choose form a graphical representation of the wavefomrs, some sort of graphcal representation of the keyboard response... all of these are things that would improve a lot the user experience.
Ugh, i'm really happy this isn't the case!
There are way too much graphical bloat in audio software. The trend towards more and more pictures, skeuomorphic skins, visual representations for everything, glowing waveform oscilloscopes, EQ curves, thumbnails etc isn't in any way an unquestionable improvement. Also, not everything needs to be the same.

Patching a hardware DX can be a really nice and meditative affair. I like that abstract state of mind that both requires and rewards patience. This design doesn't stray too far away from that. FM generally requires such a meticulous approach to patching that a frenetic ultra-visual workflow just isn't a good fit. And I really do think this leads to better results. People move too fast for their own good.

KVRian
807 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:12 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:22 pm
Is Plogue using JUCE? If so, it should be relatively straightforward to add some diagrams in a dropdown menu, like in UVI Falcon for example:
We don't use JUCE but doing a popup menu with images is already a feature of our custom UI toolkit (that we trust and have expanded upon for 20 years now) and we use that in chipsynth MD for SSG-EG choices among other things.

My intervention was more in terms of resources (time/money) spent on UX thoughts and graphical design/art more than UI code per se. It wasn't clear.

{edit} That said, I agree that a popup to choose the algorithm would be a welcome addition. I just love dialing personally, either until I find the one I want - sometimes I know which one it is, or using random etc.

Cheers
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

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KVRAF
5942 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:16 pm

Honestly, with the algorithm updating as you turn the knob I don't see the problem. I often like to set up a patch, then flip the algorithm to other things and see if it gets more interesting :)

(Bought BTW, I was going to wait for a demo version but I got impatient. Fun synth!)

KVRian
807 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:18 pm

foosnark wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:16 pm
Honestly, with the algorithm updating as you turn the knob I don't see the problem. I often like to set up a patch, then flip the algorithm to other things and see if it gets more interesting :)
Yeah thing is I'm like you but another member of the team wanted the popup approach. Different creative workflows I guess.

Thanks for the order btw!
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

KVRian
703 posts since 13 Feb, 2013

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:19 pm

Fully agree. Sound quality with attention to details is the real important thing. There are many good sounding synth with an advanced ui, but most of them miss the last 10% sound character that Plogue is after. Things like dirt, dac, amps and dynamic response and non linear behavior that makes hardware often so great. This is the stuff I'm looking for and I would choose that over a better ui any day.

The ui isn't the most advanced but absolutly usable.

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KVRAF
21939 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:52 pm

foosnark wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:16 pm
Honestly, with the algorithm updating as you turn the knob I don't see the problem.
It's easier to see the routing you want to go for before you actually go and select it (or pass a bunch of routings you DON'T want until you hit the one that you want). It's just more direct.

KVRAF
7611 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:00 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:28 am
EnGee wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:18 am
In the example I gave, I tested 4 synth: MODX, OPS7, DX7 V and FM8. They were in that order as well.

Anyway, OPS7 is very near to MODX. It's almost identical while DX7 V and FM8 are lacking some
details and character. DX7 V is slightly better than FM8.
I have no idea how near the MODX is from the original DX7 though.
I don't think the modx uses oldskool sine lookuptables ( I am almost sure :)
That being said , every fm synth will sound close to each other since it's phase modualton after all .
I am not sure if the latest yamaha fm synths uses calculated sines or high res sine samples , but they sure don't use the old lowres lookup table method
Scroll down to YM 21280
https://ajxs.me/blog/Yamaha_DX7_Technical_Analysis.html
I really don't know if it is generated or based on a sample (waveform) like AWM. I tried to know by skimming over the manuals, but there is no detailed explanation of how it is generated except that there is a "tone generator" which is a general term.

Well, I'm glad that there are extended functions and modulations in OPS7 because that will make it unique as I can start from a DX7 preset then add to it and change it to another preset that would be unique to POS7 :)

Another thing that I benefited from having compared this great synth is to appreciate what I have! :hihi: I mean in a positive way! I didn't give attention to the FM-X before, but hearing how good it sounds, I'm sold now between POS7 and MODX. They are on other league above DX7 V and FM8 (and most other soft FM synths). But that all is related to DX7 original presets! Does that mean they are also better (more pleasant to the ear) in every sound creation than other FM/PM synths? I might make the opposite (like taking some FM8 presets and try creating them in OPS7/MODX) and see in general what I like and then conclude if every synth has its advantages and disadvantages or the OPS7/MODX are better overall from other FM/PM synths.

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KVRAF
4640 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:08 pm

Is this normal behaviour ?
With some gate on's , there is slight variation (brighter sound) even when key sync is on .
The spectrum clearly shows that the harmonics are boosted
Simple 2 op tower structure , both ratio 1 , modulator feedbacked for sawish waveform
SOund example
https://app.box.com/s/5vlpm4liyub3ufa8tnpckmnjg6jqy2kd

Image
Image
Image
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRAF
7611 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:12 pm

davidv@plogue wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:18 pm
foosnark wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:16 pm
Honestly, with the algorithm updating as you turn the knob I don't see the problem. I often like to set up a patch, then flip the algorithm to other things and see if it gets more interesting :)
Yeah thing is I'm like you but another member of the team wanted the popup approach. Different creative workflows I guess.

Thanks for the order btw!
You can also do it in groups according to how many carriers:
1 C
2 C
3 C
4 C
5 C
6 C

But also numbering them according to the original DX7 numbering. That would be ideal IMO :)

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