Good GUI, Good Sound?

[snooty30]

Concerning mainly free VST/VSTi here. After seeing the news about the Monolisa being released & thinking how nice it looked (I haven't tried it out yet), it got me thinking. Does a good GUI = a good sound? If someone's put the effort in to make it look attractive will it sound as good? And does a poor interface = poor sound/usability?

[Lunch Money]

There is no correlation. The sound can only be judged by the sound. There are a million reasons why a plug-in developer may not have a stunning GUI, especially a freeware dev who has to do his own artwork.

I mean, Antti's stuff is brilliant, but not exactly lovely to look at. MDA plugs are fabulous, but use host GUI.

Of course, if you're lucky enough to have both, you're a winner. [gratuitous] BetabugsAudio was founded on simplicity of concept combined with rather nice GUIs (though not nice in that 'hardware look-alike' way, but in their own particular way). Then, we had the wonderful fortune to get some coders on board who do great work.

Greg

[Red_Force]

Yes but...

I think there is a probability that a good PI ends up with a nice GUI. Because good soft desserves good presentation, a good plug will entice either devs or a talented user to do what it takes to dress it well.

It's a bit like the closet in a restaurant : if they're in a good shape, the kitchen are most likely to be in a good shape too. Attention to the detail is a general state of mind

[mauseoleum]

Attention to the detail is a general state of mind

mmmmmmhhhhhhmmmmmm .... is there some selfpromo between the lines

[Borogove]

There is no correlation.

I'm gonna have to go with Red Force on this one - there's some correlation, but not a perfect one. "Caring about quality" will express itself both in the visuals and the audio. I know my plugin GUIs aren't the most exciting ones around, but I do try and make them as good as I can given the constraints I have, and I don't say "that looks wrong, but f**k it, it doesn't affect the sound" any more than I'd say "that sounds wrong, but f**k it, it doesn't affect the look".

[Sicklecell666]

Yes but...

It's a bit like the closet in a restaurant : if they're in a good shape, the kitchen are most likely to be in a good shape too. Attention to the detail is a general state of mind

I have never seena restuarant closet before..

Have I been dining in the wrong places?

[emdot_ambient]

Yes but...

It's a bit like the closet in a restaurant

I have never seena restuarant closet before..

Maybe Red_Force meant the water closet; that's how I judge restaurants. A clean bathroom is the sign of a well run place.

Sorry, didn't mean to drive this thread into the toilet!

[Lunch Money]

I agree that there SHOULD be correlation, and in particular I feel that a professional package MUST have good presentation (ie. a nice GUI) to be considered professional.

I suppose my comments were mostly centred at freeware devs, many of whom are forced to make their own (and may not have the skills, tools, or design savvy) or ask their 'good buddy Phil who happens to be handy with Photoshop' to do it for them.



Or from a different angle-- I agree that a professional-sounding product deserves a professional-looking GUI, and for a commercial product it's mandatory. However, for most freeware and starting developers, the most important thing is the algo. Check out Vanilla Compressor by Chunkware, stuff by Antti, or NuBi when it was host-GUI only.

Of course there are counter-examples. I love the look of Fishphones, Kjaerhus, and others.

Greg

[emdot_ambient]

But to answer more seriously . . . there is no logical connection between GUI and sound. I'm not talking about GUI in the user interface side, but in looks alone. Artistic design takes a whole different type and amount of effort and energy. Any developer interested in making nice looking GUIs will either have to devote time or resources to it that could have otherwise been used making it sound better. I'm not against attractive GUI, just merely pointing out that small developers may have neither the time, talent or resources to do both . . . and which is more important?

Ever seen the interface on Symbolic Sound's Kyma? That's about as professional as it gets in sound design hardware/sofware and the GUI is dead boring--very generic and non-sexy. They just don't put that high a priority on the look, which is a valid approach if you're interested developing for sound quality above all other things.

[cptgone]

Red has a point, but still, there's a kind of dev that isn't graphically gifted or demanding.

[Red_Force]

is there some selfpromo between the lines

Sort of. I remember when we have released Ohm Boyz funky skin - there were some people saying "it's full of eye candy in it, it shall sound bad if it needs it". Which was really upseting as actually I was trying to be as good in design than the dev had been on the sound. I guess that's because at that time them better looking plug (like Model E) weren't exactly convincing... Fortunately things like Zeta or PSP or some logic plugs have helped to change the default stake on this

Ever seen the interface on Symbolic Sound's Kyma? That's about as professional as it gets in sound design hardware/sofware and the GUI is dead boring--very generic and non-sexy.

I don't know that one but if that's true... I think it's sad. What matter with an effect or an instrument is not what it can do but what you actually do with it. So a good plug HAS TO inspire you to be really good. It doesn't especially mean the GUI has to be catchy, but the user should have pleasure to open it IMO...

Red has a point, but still, there's a kind of dev that isn't graphically gifted or demanding.

Of course, I don't mean that it's a strict rule. But if you think about it, even in free area, a lot of good plugs have good GUIS, while a lot of the crappy things don't.

[Majken]

Good GUI design is not just a visual thing. It's about explaining to the user what knob does what and why. To me personally a good looking GUI is a GUI that's well laid out and easy to understand. Tweakbench new stuff is a perfect example of this, so is Oli Larkin's stuff. Very simple and flat, however very readable and well laid out.

And I gotta agree with Red, if a dev spends a great amount of time finetuning the code for a plugin it's very likely he'll put in a good effort to make a straight forward and easy to use interface to go along with it.

/Majken

[arguru]

Does a good GUI = a good sound?

Are physically beautiful ppl smarter?

No fukcing relation.

[Urs]

Good GUI design is not just a visual thing.

I second that. A good gui gives you the access to the plugin's innards.

Nevertheless, there are phantastic looking guis that are a pain in the ass when it comes to actually using them. And there are ugly or mute guis that are just huge fun and joy to use.

A piece of software may look average, but if the gui provides for actual usability and great feel, it may also be a sign for a good plugin concept. Hence, in that respect, a good gui is indeed tied to a good plugin concept, which in turn may also correspond to a good sound.

Gui design is way more than making shiny vintage 3D knobs. Says me. I'm definately biased

Cheers,

Urs

[Steven West]

I vote for Majkens Subduer synth for good looks and sexy sounds. A simple straightfoward synth almost like a CS-10/CS-15 in a compact VSTi, and doesn't let you down.

I really like the sound of the Xhip synth that's being worked on, but it's GUI has got to be the most unattractive of all. But I think most supporters including myself are cool with that. If it cuts down on size and CPU consumption, and the dev isn't spending days on 'pretty'ing it up' and just concentrate on the sound power - all the power to him then.