Imposcar, Albino vs Synth 1, Polyiblit...

[Caleb]

just from my general observation in this thread and some other threads i have seen recently...

Q: why do some people get emotional about

1. somone paying loads of money for a commercial product when freeware is available

2. someone paying loads of money for a mac when a PC can match the performance cheaper

or anything along those lines..

ok I can understand those helpful people that just want to inform other people about cheaper/free options/alternative to expensive/commercial route - i think that's great 'cause it's like giving useful information to those who are not aware of a few things.

but on the other hand... there are plenty of cases that someone just WANT TO buy a commercial synth over free one, or hardware over software, or Mac over PC or whatever... what makes you 'tick' in these cases - why can't some people just say 'well it's their choice' and move on, but spend time and effort to 'teach' the other?

usual stuff that i've seen are

1. people fighting very hard for merits of free software, evangelising the free softwares to people who are perfectly happy with their commercial softwares

2. people fighting very hard for merits of software over hardware, again, evangelising the use of software over hardware

3. people fighting very hard for merits of PC over mac (or vice versa actually)

----

I don't really have a 'message' or ideal that i would personally like to preach to people here, but i'm just interested in this particular beaviourial pattern/communal dynamic

can some people who do this please explain themselves if you have time?

The emotion comes from the disagreement - happens on any topic not just the ones you name.

The evangelising of freeware is actually a service to other musicians. Making music as a hobby or as a profession can be very expensive. Fellow musicians will appreciate that and work very hard to demonstrate from their own purchasing experience that you can do more for less if you're cluey about it.

It's one of the benefits of experience that can be passed on in a community such as KVRAudio.

It's good to fight the perception at the moment that you get what you pay for. In the music software world I don't think this is as accurate as it used to be in terms of hardware platform, audio editing, sequencing and synth and sampler usage.

It's good to keep pushing this notion - it might save people alot of money on things they don't need.

Caleb

[crimsontider]

Caleb wrote:
"It's good to keep pushing this notion - it might save people alot of money on things they don't need. "

That's what he was talking about. IMO most people can decide for themselves what they need or don't need, a ruthless agenda is not needed to influence someone that way.

It's one thing to give a personal opinion on a product and another critizing someone who disagrees with your opinion.

My personal opinion is that I have not found any free softsynths that will compete with the Korg Legacy, Absynth, FM7 and a few others regardless of cost. I have no problem with anyone that disagrees and I certainly wouldn't tell them that they must "not know what their doing" or something to that effect!

[Caleb]

That's what he was talking about. IMO most people can decide for themselves what they need or don't need, a ruthless agenda is not needed to influence someone that way.

No - actually I disagree.

And the agenda is not ruthless - freeware requires more of a user push given that its advertising budget is low or non-existent.

How many times have people respond in threads - "Gee thanks for letting me know about 'synth x' I would never have known it was there otherwise" Of course you wouldn't - there's nothing pushing it anywhere else that's why, only the users in forums such as these ones.

Of course we could all be silent and watch people spend endless amounts of money on stuff they don't need - why not? Let them sink or swim on their own under the notion that they can make decisions on their own.

Me - I prefer to get the options to them that they're less likely to see that might actually save them money.

Yeah - FM7 seems quite nice - I bought FMHeaven instead. I should have gone for freeware though because I realised later that I hated programming FM synths.

Caleb

[FaX]

Psychos.

The internet is catharsis.

Says it all really..... :hyper::hyper::hyper:

[BONES]

My personal opinion is that I have not found any free softsynths that will compete with the Korg Legacy, Absynth, FM7 and a few others regardless of cost.

This why I get my back up - you have made a statement but not given any reasons for it, making it seem like an immutable fact of life, despite starting with "My personal opinion". If you state such an opinion I would expect you to be able to tell us all why/how you came to it. I have looked at each of those instruments and I cannot understand how you would arrive at that opinion, given that none of them have a filter sound that can compete with WaspXT [as an example]. In the past I have posted samples of the kind of sounds I am talking about and all I have ever got in return are dismissive statements. i.e. No-one has offerred another sample to show-up those sounds yet neither have they been willing to accept that WaspXT might have an adge over another product.

When I get into an argument, it is invariably in search of understanding. When you state your opinion without anything to support it, you contribute nothing towards that goal, so I keep at it.

How many times have people respond in threads - "Gee thanks for letting me know about 'synth x' I would never have known it was there otherwise" Of course you wouldn't - there's nothing pushing it anywhere else that's why, only the users in forums such as these ones.

Exactly! Surely that is why these forums exist at all, is it not?

[crimsontider]

The sounds Bones, the sounds.

But if you run any softsynth through enough distoration effects, they all sound similar.....Bones.

[BONES]

That's no help at all because when I demo'd those synths I didn't hear any "sounds", just the usual static. So I don't know from your post whether its because you generally use presets and therefore like to buy commercial synths with well-crafted factory banks, or whether there is some tonal character in those synths that works for you [because there is nothing in them that works for me at all]. What about the sounds? Do you mean the presets? Do you mean the on-board effects? Do you mean the specific tonal qualities of the oscillators? I know you can't possibly mean the quality/sound of the filters because FM 7 doesn't have any and I've not heard anything to indicate that the filters on the Legacy collection or Absynth are any good. And I know that it certainly can't be options in the Legacy collection because its just a bunch of fairly basic synths, with the possible exception of WaveStation, which still doesn't stack up against UltranWMS's 4 oscillators, fantastic filter, 2 LFO and 3 envelopes.
Let me show you by example. I prefer WaspXT over any other V/A because of the strong and unique character of its filter, particularly the resonance. It has good oscillators with cross-mod options and an excellent dual mode to fatten it even further. It is also very logically laid out [if you use any of my skins] and everything is in front of you on a single page, which is very important for me in visualising the signal path for patch editing. See, now you are free to say things like "having everything on one page isn't an issue for me" or "the character of the filter isn't so important for the kind of music I make" and suddenly we can understand one-another's position on the topic. But when you say "The sounds" its completely meaningless to me [and others i'm sure] because I have heard them and been hugely underwhelmed.

[gcsmoney]

Musicians having strong opinions???Musicians being emotional or tempermental??Musicians being emotional or tempermental about those strong opinions???WOW!! I've bet this is the first time in recorded history I've ever seen that!!! Sorry my sarcasm-control medication hasn't kicked in yet....



Where the hell are all the animal lefts activists??

[crimsontider]

But when you say "The sounds" its completely meaningless to me

This does not surprise me...Bones. I am a guitarist and drummer and not the second coming synth god that you believe yourself to be but if you can't understand why someone likes an instrument because they like the way it sounds, then you are truly lost in the technology.

[crimsontider]

Delete

[VitaminD]

Musicians having strong opinions???Musicians being emotional or tempermental??Musicians being emotional or tempermental about those strong opinions???WOW!! I've bet this is the first time in recorded history I've ever seen that!!! Sorry my sarcasm-control medication hasn't kicked in yet....



Where the hell are all the animal lefts activists??

take your pick: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php

[Caleb]

This does not surprise me...Bones. I am a guitarist and drummer and not the second coming synth god that you believe yourself to be but if you can't understand why someone likes an instrument because they like the way it sounds, then you are truly lost in the technology.

So does that mean you like it because of how the presets sound?

In which case - I can understand that. There is a tendency towards commercial synths having a better and broader palette of sounds out of the box, and having preset packs available (maybe at cost) from a well-known sound designer.

I can see the appeal of this and have certainly witnessed the importance of presets to many people in their praise of synths.

I'm not saying that freeware synths don't or couldn't have dazzling presets either factory loaded or available from a third party, but I imagine that on the whole, commercial synths would be more impressive in this area.

Does this sound fair?

Caleb

[pooshka]

The evangelising of freeware is actually a service to other musicians...

It's one of the benefits of experience that can be passed on in a community such as KVRAudio...

It's good to keep pushing this notion - it might save people alot of money on things they don't need.

Caleb

momentarilly bypassing the notion that such 'evangelising' can come across as 'patronising' to some people, this sounds like plain and pure altruism to me.

if you don't mind, could you perhaps elaborate on the above points a bit more? why would you spend your own personal time for the benefit of others who may not be as 'cluey' as they can be (in your view)?

as I said earlier, I'm just generally interested in what people believe/do and why-. I guess the same question I asked you just now could also apply to people who put in their own time and effort to develop free VSTs or running free information websites on the net. This whole 'free advice, free resource, freebies' about the Net fascinates me.

[crimsontider]

Caleb,

While I appreciate the sincerity and the tone of your posting, you are painting a picture that is not me.
I use my own presets mostly and understand the structure of analog, FM and modular, although I have never tried to design one. Probably never will.

Do most of the members that do design softsynths here,use lower level languages or design them with high level programs. Just curious.

[bluedad]

I know you can't possibly mean the quality/sound of the filters because FM 7 doesn't have any

that shows how much time you've spent with fm7, although I understand you would never find any use for it. I'm ok with that; I've yet to do anything with WASPXT.
but fm7 actually has two filters that can each run in lp,bp,hp mode.