KVR Audio

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:18 pm

When discussing tube vs. solid state it usually means even order harmonic distortion.

When discussing tape vs. digital it usually refers to the continuous rather than "pixilated" nature of analog recording media.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:23 pm

Steven Kandel, writer of the Star Trek episode 'I Mudd,' almost wrote:Warmth is a little bird tweeting in a meadow. Warmth is a wreath of pretty flowers... which smell bad.

... and had Mr. Spock say it.

nool · Post by **nool** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:27 pm

Meffy wrote:
Steven Kandel, writer of the Star Trek episode 'I Mudd,' almost wrote:Warmth is a little bird tweeting in a meadow. Warmth is a wreath of pretty flowers... which smell bad.
... and had Mr. Spock say it.

don't spray it

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:31 pm

:-D ! You're safe, I never spray except in self-defense.

No name · Post by **No name** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:32 pm

Forgive me if i'm off or not totally right. But I always thought warmth in sound was due to small amounts of distortion in a recorded signal? Or is that just a part of it, or any of it for that matter? Just read something on it about a month ago and for some reason that sticks out in my mind.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:44 pm

Rusty Shackleford wrote:Vinyl is warm because you DO get that harmonic distortion that colors the sound. You hear it immediately- punchier bottom end, and rolled off higher frequencies. If I mix a record at a club and then mix the same track on CD they won't sound the same at all.

Pig's Arse! PA's are, by and large, a long way from hi-fi. I can immediately hear the difference between pristine vinyl and a CD on a very expensive hi-fi [certainly not on mine] but neither you nor anyone else could on a blind-test over a club PA. Trust me.
As shamann alluded to, "warmth" is a bullshit term used to justify a totally subjective opinion. At the very least it is an attempt to quantify the unquantifiable, much as is my use of the term "squelchy" to describe a good filter sound.

renø · Post by **renø** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:59 pm

"warmth" is a multi-purpose-meaningless word that people use when they do not know how to describe a sound characteristic, or when they want to sell you anything with marketting bullshits.

Whenever i hear "warmth" i take my gun.

Borogove · Post by **Borogove** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:02 pm

Warmth is a pimple on the pope's pet dragon.

grease · Post by **grease** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:10 pm

Hmmm...it seems there is no clear idea of what warmth is. It does seem certain that it is a term (inconsistently) used to describe many different qualities, that somehow are supposed to contrast with "digital."

From the comments above, it seems the qualities that contrast to "digital," which some consider desirable are harmonic complexity but with less high frequencies, and compression/saturation. Plus randomness and variability seem to be important.

Of course, these things are attainable with digital media, and with software! So it's misleading to call those traditional "digital" qualities "digital." I guess in this perjorative sense, "digital" refers to some qualities of music produced in the modern digital age, that some of use don't like, rather than qualities inherent in the fact that the music is being delivered by a digital medium like a CD.

Theoretically, anything you can do with vinyl can be done on a CD - you just have to know what you're looking for. Yes, the smoothness of an analog medium is not the same as the discreteness of a digital sound, but it seems that our ears are not really equipped to hear these artifacts in a properly mastered CD.

And there does seem to be some preference for things like magnetic tape, analog circuitry, etc. There must be certain qualities that can be identified as "warm" even if that term isn't consistently used. Once you figure out what that stuff is, you can model it digitally!

There really must be a knowledge base out there on this topic...I'll do some searching sometime when I have more time!

Thanks for the discussion!

Glooper · Post by **Glooper** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:12 pm

according to me frequency diagram... the perception of a warm sound is additional frequencies in 200-400 hz and a reduction in 2.8-6khz

Ben

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:19 pm

My spies inform me that S_A_P® wrote:It usually just means that the high end is tapered off and there are alot of 2nd harmionics as opposed to 3rd.

That's a damn fine starting point... I mean, the term "warmth" means something partly objective and mostly subjective, just like everything else in art, but your definition has a great deal of power.

I'd argue that there's generally also some imprecision and randomness involved -- imitation of natural acoustic sounds (which are not the only valid ones) -- but not very loudly. This is part of the subjective aspect: precision and regularity grate on many nervous systems (such as mine), but they soothe others', and generally the other way around.

(And we can argue about whether the effects of a stimulus on a nervous system are objective or subjective, but I got enough of that pursuing my degrees in English -- minors in Philosophy and Psychology.)

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:24 pm

"If you gotta ask, you'll never know."

-- Woo+! Can't believe I quoted that here first!

putte · Post by **putte** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:40 pm

warmth is a feeling, and to me (speaking software plugins) its the opposite of Emapplegic´s plugins ..

hydratone is warmth to my ears ..

putte

snooky · Post by **snooky** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:44 pm

My BCR2000 has a very varm sound

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:07 am

The answers to most questions can be found by reading Ozy and Millie.

Or if not the question in question, one pretty close to it. Kinda. Sorta.

What is "warmth" anyway?