Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

How to make that sound...
User avatar
JO512
KVRist
120 posts since 9 Nov, 2018 from Colorado

Post Sat May 23, 2020 6:42 am

DJErmac wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:51 pm
What is missing ? :(
I'm working on trying to replicate the sound in the first video you posted. I decided to try to do it in Massive X, since you also have that. I get something similar to the sound in the video, but it's missing something. I suspect that there might be a kick sound layered with it. Give me a bit..

CHOOS
KVRist
476 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sat May 23, 2020 7:03 am

JO512 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:39 am
CHOOS wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:51 am
https://vimeo.com/421857622

I'm not getting any audio on your video.
f**k!!!
I keep forgetting to change the audio source!!!

https://vimeo.com/421925181

You can hear that every bass sounds different so use a synth with retriger.
OR play it 100 times and sample the one you think sounds best and use a wav/audio

User avatar
DJErmac
KVRian
1054 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sat May 23, 2020 7:48 am

Yes, I had tried retrigger with the bass I made, and concluded that, indeed, just like you said, sampling the best one would be the best option.

I'm going to try the other ideas that have been suggested, thanks !

User avatar
DJErmac
KVRian
1054 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sat May 23, 2020 7:50 am

CHOOS wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:03 am
JO512 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:39 am
CHOOS wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:51 am
https://vimeo.com/421857622

I'm not getting any audio on your video.
f**k!!!
I keep forgetting to change the audio source!!!

https://vimeo.com/421925181

You can hear that every bass sounds different so use a synth with retriger.
OR play it 100 times and sample the one you think sounds best and use a wav/audio
That version is really very close...

User avatar
JO512
KVRist
120 posts since 9 Nov, 2018 from Colorado

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sat May 23, 2020 10:06 am

DJErmac wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:09 pm

I'm trying to get something between this bass sound (you can hear it right from the beginning) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUnu-u-XVgU

I tried it in Falcon, since you have that, and since this sound seems to need at least two layers. I attached the preset. Let me know if it works for you. I had to put it in a ZIP archive in order to attach it.

Basically what I did there for the first layer is a saw modulated with an envelope to raise the pitch and snap it down right at the beginning. I then added an LP filter with an envelope doing something similar to its cutoff.

For the second layer, I used the pretty standard kick synthesis technique where you do just as above, but with a simple sine. This layer adds more thump.

In the first layer, for the saw, I also used unisons with stereo panning for a wider, thicker sound.

That's pretty much it. You can play with the envelopes to dial it in to taste. Try adjusting the relative levels of the two layers as well. And on the second layer, the one with the sine, you might also add a bandpass filter and try different cutoff settings. This can give a little more of a resonant-peak sound and maybe remove excessive bass if you want that.

The note needed using this patch is A#1.

Also, with this patch, you need to wait until the sound is complete before releasing the key or sending a note-off. If released to early, it clicks.
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User avatar
DJErmac
KVRian
1054 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sat May 23, 2020 5:05 pm

JO512 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:06 am
DJErmac wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:09 pm

I'm trying to get something between this bass sound (you can hear it right from the beginning) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUnu-u-XVgU

I tried it in Falcon, since you have that, and since this sound seems to need at least two layers. I attached the preset. Let me know if it works for you. I had to put it in a ZIP archive in order to attach it.

Basically what I did there for the first layer is a saw modulated with an envelope to raise the pitch and snap it down right at the beginning. I then added an LP filter with an envelope doing something similar to its cutoff.

For the second layer, I used the pretty standard kick synthesis technique where you do just as above, but with a simple sine. This layer adds more thump.

In the first layer, for the saw, I also used unisons with stereo panning for a wider, thicker sound.

That's pretty much it. You can play with the envelopes to dial it in to taste. Try adjusting the relative levels of the two layers as well. And on the second layer, the one with the sine, you might also add a bandpass filter and try different cutoff settings. This can give a little more of a resonant-peak sound and maybe remove excessive bass if you want that.

The note needed using this patch is A#1.

Also, with this patch, you need to wait until the sound is complete before releasing the key or sending a note-off. If released to early, it clicks.
Wow, nailed it ! :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

You've not made an exact copy, but that's absolutely not what I was after. I'm trying to understand what techniques can produce this kind of incredibly punchy bass so I can make an infinite number of soundalike basses. It seems your kick layer technique is working amazingly. :tu:

With a bit of post production, here is what I got with your patch :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DIb_p ... IAguVGSitr

Thanks a million times !!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Now I'm going to try the Charlatan version.

User avatar
DJErmac
KVRian
1054 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sat May 23, 2020 5:36 pm

CHOOS wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:03 am
JO512 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:39 am
CHOOS wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:51 am
https://vimeo.com/421857622

I'm not getting any audio on your video.
f**k!!!
I keep forgetting to change the audio source!!!

https://vimeo.com/421925181

You can hear that every bass sounds different so use a synth with retriger.
OR play it 100 times and sample the one you think sounds best and use a wav/audio
Sounds great !!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

There is slightly less punch, but the global sound is absolutely awesome.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oAcyE ... wrNUv-5rO3

Thank you so much for your help ! :tu:

CHOOS
KVRist
476 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sun May 24, 2020 2:21 am

no problem man.

For that exact sound charlatan isn't the best option but f**k it it's free. If at all possible I like to use free software so other who are broke can do the same.

I'm pretty sure the original was also done in two steps/layers but I think the attack can have even more layers i.e. percussion type sounds

the method of getting there is the important thing

User avatar
JO512
KVRist
120 posts since 9 Nov, 2018 from Colorado

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sun May 24, 2020 6:57 am

DJErmac wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:05 pm
Thanks a million times !!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
You're welcome! Glad to be helpful.

TIMT
KVRian
726 posts since 8 Mar, 2009

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sun May 24, 2020 9:50 am

The second one is a "donk"the first one is all about the start point and the logarithmic attack of the first few cycles on the waveform.that's what gives it that attack that seems to punch through on the downbeats,but not sound like it has a blatant transient.the fact the first mix is really thin kind of aids that bass sounds attack as well

Focus on your ADSR or simply use a really tight fade at the front of the bass sound.most of these bass sounds work the way they do because of the enveloping controlling how much low end energy there is at the start and end of the sound.you can then further accentuate the perception of attack you created by using some compression.this sounds like it has a pretty quick attack though and a moderate release
I

User avatar
DJErmac
KVRian
1054 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sun May 24, 2020 10:57 am

TIMT wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:50 am
The second one is a "donk"the first one is all about the start point and the logarithmic attack of the first few cycles on the waveform.that's what gives it that attack that seems to punch through on the downbeats,but not sound like it has a blatant transient.the fact the first mix is really thin kind of aids that bass sounds attack as well

Focus on your ADSR or simply use a really tight fade at the front of the bass sound.most of these bass sounds work the way they do because of the enveloping controlling how much low end energy there is at the start and end of the sound.you can then further accentuate the perception of attack you created by using some compression.this sounds like it has a pretty quick attack though and a moderate release
Thanks for your opinion. :tu:

You can't deny, though, that there is something really hard, noisy, maybe organic, that can't be replicated only by playing with ADSR from a simple saw osc. There is an obvious second noisy layer.

I'm used to creating sounds, and this time there was something I was not getting at all. I simply couldn't find any matching noise attack to reproduce it or anything...

So far, the kick layer seems to be the best possible option.

User avatar
Vertion
KVRian
671 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Sun May 24, 2020 12:20 pm

Dedicated "Donk" Synth:

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?pl ... ne&id=2163

Use RBass/Maxxbass for additional bass. I have a FLStudio Patcher preset available which surpasses RBass/Maxxbass.
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

Kwurqx
KVRian
520 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Mon May 25, 2020 8:50 am

Your examples are not the same sounds. But they share some characteristics

On those characteristics...

A general other approach to fast "donky" basses is FM. Much despised these days, but untold numbers of FM basses are in untold amounts of 80's/90's dance music.

For those who like to try FM for free: a free sysex compatible Yamaha DX7 emulation (thousands of patches online)

Digital Suburban - Dexed
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/dexed- ... l-suburban

Even a simple 2 operator carrier/modulator pair at a 1:1 ratio (with some feedback on the modulator), like pair 1, 2 in algorithm 2, will get you close to your first example. Just play with the modulator level and decay time. But at higher modulation levels and longer decay times you get this now much despised "FM sound". Including the dirty feedback "noise".

As with AM, FM it is about sum and difference frequencies. Odd sum ratios (e.g. 1:2) will get you odd sum and difference harmonics (e.g. 1, 3, 5, 7, think square, triangle). For those "hollow" basses.

You can off course add operators. Carriers (the bottom ones in DX7/Dexed) will have an audio output (you hear their output), so you can layer sounds. the upper ones are modulators, modulating the operator(s) they are connected to (you don't hear them). Sadly DX7/Dexed has 32 fixed algorthms, so not all configurations are possible). But it did not stop FM from changing the sound of music in a major way in the eighties and nineties.

About the DX7 / Dexed envelopes. They are not ADSR but consecutive segments with their own level and rate. So if you want a decay, I suggest you use segment 3: set level to your target amplitude (e.g. 0) and set the time to get there (e.g. arounsd 40). Use 1 and 2 for attack/spike if needed. And 4 for release.

It's worth a try. It's a whole new world of wonder.

There is plenty more FM bass then the obiquitous Solid Bass / Lately Bass

SOLID BASS | DX7 Patch Tutorial 11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LcJsiNkpb4

User avatar
DJErmac
KVRian
1054 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Mon May 25, 2020 4:09 pm

Yes, it's true that a lot of cool donk basses come from FM synthesis. But I've never heard any that comes close from my two examples regarding punch. Or there's a trick I don't get.
A long time ago, around 2003, I used FM7 a lot and learned to make my own sounds with it (don't own it anymore).

Kwurqx
KVRian
520 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Need help recreating this kind of oldschool punchy bass (donk-like)

Post Tue May 26, 2020 2:59 am

DJErmac wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:09 pm
Yes, it's true that a lot of cool donk basses come from FM synthesis. But I've never heard any that comes close from my two examples regarding punch. Or there's a trick I don't get.
A long time ago, around 2003, I used FM7 a lot and learned to make my own sounds with it (don't own it anymore).
Well, since you have some FM experience already, just give it a try. Dexed can be so fast in rates that it produces clicks in the attack when rate is near 0.

For subtractive synthesis, it's not only the amp envelopes that might not be fast enough. Also, not all filters allow for very fast cutoff modulation.

Adding to this...

As mentioned before: a fast and (octaves) deep downward pitch sweep will also yield a donk. This is how "analog" bassdrums (and toms and snares) like the TR808 work. Generally just a single sine. Generally adding noise to taste.

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