Guitar players: Hard decision, need halp! FAST!

[tomg]

Makes you wonder WTF they are doing today don't it?

Funny you should ask that, because I *just* heard from the dude through myspace 2 days ago. I hadn't spoken to him in....13 years or so after he moved out to LA. Here's the guts of his message to me:

what the f**k is up you crazy mofo?
i am finishing up a couple masters degrees at MIT. i know, crazy shit. i finally got my act together at 26 and went back to school, after more than a few years as a fuckup.

MIT degree and still can't capitalize a f**king "I"..

TWO degrees, even!

[Sickle]

Ok, I can't help meself..

Say hello to Tommy:



Coolest thing about this f**ker is the half sleeve I tattooed on him very tightly based on Skinny Puppy's 'Too Dark Park' album art..

For free, of course..





I just remembered he was a huge Red House Painters fan as well..

Gahd demn..

[tomg]

Ok, I can't help meself..

Say hello to Tommy:

So is this guy a nuclear scientist now?

[Sickle]

Maybe he's on the MOAB v2 dev team! f**k those pesky Russkies and their sissy-like fireworks..

[krushing]

How much did you pay for the Traynor, if you don't mind me asking? I've been eyeing the Tiny Terror occasionally as well as it's not too expensive for what it offers...

[Sickle]

I paid $400. I could have driven down the price I'm sure, but the guy who sold it to me is literally the only dealer in quality vintage gear for dozens of miles in any direction and I make it a point to support local economy as much as I can, especially when he's being driven into the ground by the larger Made In China/Behringer Depot Outlets here. I could spare it having sold my assault rifle, but without that caveat, I would not have picked it up.

[Killvehicle]

The Old Timer I grabbed the amp from more or less said the same thing but warned me that it eats up tubes, or at least he thought it did. *shrug*

12ax7's can last a long long time.. I change mine every year or so, cause Im a tube junkie. BUt they can easily last 10-15 years or more..

Power tubes on the other hand, have a shorter lifespan. Typically about a year under normal use..

Oh, that's a pet peeve of mine.

I'm not sure at what point this current fetish for and about tubes started, but it's just such BULLSHIT!

...like I mentioned, I'm on the boards at the Marshall forum a lot, and this attitude has permeated everywhere over there, this thought about how tubes burn out like lightbulbs and that unless you have the precise mix of preamp and power amp tubes for your amp, it'll never sound any good...and even if by some miracle you get the right mix of f**cking Winged C Svetlanas and fu*king NOS Mullards or whatever ( I won't even start with transformers and chokes!), it'll still sound like shit if the bias is .000001 off of whatever is the fashioable voltage!

It's all shit!

I will tell you I sound great through my 5150 with 15 year old tubes, and my JCM 800 with 20 year-old power tubes and my TSL with 10 year old power tubes...never mind the 40+ year old tubes in my little Supro/Valco.

(As heard on this winning KVR contest entry:)

http://sleek.phreque.com/7-04_SleeekMon ... Anceps.mp3

...by what you're saying, that amp shouldn;t even exist!

I did give in once and bought a very boutiqueish amp, A Frenzel FM - 5E3 "Deluxe Plus" head, basically the tweed deluxe circuit with every possible high-end component, wiring so clean you could eat off it, with nary a transistor or even an eyelet board, (forget about PCBs!), and fresh EH tubes.

That sits on a shelf, and I play my other amps.

...and look, I was a f*cking guitar tech for my first 7 years out of high school, touring with some of the biggest guitar bands in the world, (Cheap Trick, ACDC, Nugent, etc.), all of whom had wonderful (and loud)guitar sounds, and not one of them gave a toss about either what tubes they had or how old they were. None of them ever changed tubes unless something went wrong (which never happened), either, much less any sort of once-a-year gaiety.

*ahem*


-S.

what the f**k are you on about?? I said preamp tubes can last a long time, no?? I change em, when I change power tubes, not all the time though.. If you are going to tell me a fresh set of tubes doesnt do anything to the sound then your just stuck in your ways. YOu can run em for 40 years for all I care, the amp will still make noise, but I think its pretty easy to hear a sound improvement if you put new tubes in her... I have a 5150 for a long time now(since 94).. I didnt touch the tubes for the first 6 or 7 years.. But I kept noticing something was off, and tried tubes and problem cured. It really sounded like a new amp.. Thats all the info I need.

I change tubes about once every year or so, cause I run my shit hard, and maybe it needs it or maybe not, but I dont see this as being some bullshit.. Power tubes DO get old. I can hear it everytime.. A buddy of mine has an ole JCM800 from 83 I think.. Original tubes. Guess what new tubes did?? Opened that f**ker right up. It wasnt even a comparison.

And I was responding to using a Hot plate.. Those run the amps at "harder" levels all the time.. ANd most people accept 1 or 2 hard years on a power tube is enough to alter its tone.. Good or bad? Up to the player, of course..

And I have heard of "pro" touring guys who change their tubes DAILY!!! hahah George Lynch comed to mind.. NOw thats f**ked, but he claims to hear the difference.

[Hink]

it's a crap shoot though KV...my old plexi never made me smile after I changed the tubes. TBH I always believed that it was because I switched to groove tubes. I think you're right that changing out old power tubes changes the sound, especially when they start to fart out or become to microphonic. But on the other hand there are other things that decide whether that is better or worse. It's really easy to get use to burned in tubes and when you get new ones they sound too good. Kinda like changing strings tbh.

[Sleek Month]

I change tubes about once every year or so, cause I run my shit hard, and maybe it needs it or maybe not, but I dont see this as being some bullshit.. Power tubes DO get old. I can hear it everytime.. A buddy of mine has an ole JCM800 from 83 I think.. Original tubes. Guess what new tubes did?? Opened that f**ker right up. It wasnt even a comparison.

It's just fashion. Next year, it'll be the style to find old tubes, and people will start talking about how amps don't sound good unless the tubes are broken in.

Yes, new tubes sound different. Yes different brands of tubes can sound different, but when it boils down to it, different doesn't equal better. My singer dropped her drink into my 5150 once, so I had to get it serviced, and that included a retube.

...so the amp came back sounding different. I wasn't used to the change, so to my ears, it sounded worse.

...but then I got used to the new sound, and learned to tweak the amp with the new components, so it is now once again sounding good.

People love to change shit, roll the dice instead of working with what's there. Go through 10 million combinations of parts and something will match your preconceptions...or you could just do away with your preconceptions and save some money.

BTW, if you want to "open up" a JCM, try a different gain value tube in preamp slot 1, like a 12at7. I usually run as low as a 12au7 in preamp 1 on my 5150, and it makes it much lesss "high gainy" and even allows you to use channel 1 as a clean channel if necessary.

That being said, when are you sending me your old "usesless" tubes???

[Killvehicle]

That being said, when are you sending me your old "usesless" tubes???

I never called them useless. I still have an older set of JJ's 6L6's I keep for backup, even though I have run em for about 2 years..

I do have some microphonic as all hell 12ax7's.. IM not to dear to those.

5150's are a little particular about the V1 position having a quiet tube.. SO I certainly experimented with different brands and such.. I havent tried lowerin the gain by using a 12at7 or whatnot.. I know many people do try different tubes in the 5150's to try and tame the "buzz or fizz". BUt I honestly dont feel they are too buzzy at all with a nice set of tubes.. hah

I agree with HINK, to me new tubes are like new strings. I never said its a make or break deal.. If one does not like their amp, then new tubes certainly wont "make" it.. TUbes are subtle but if you feel the amp is lifeless and is lacking that little something, I know for me new tubes have always provided the extra "something" I was missing..

And if you wanna see just plain sad people trying new amps like its candy and never being happy with what they have. GO over to Harmony-centrals Amp forum.. Some of these people try and try new amp after new amp, literally week to week.. They are never happy, its amazing. They have all the big boutique brands(Bogner, Soldano, Splawn, VHT, Marshalls etc.etc. some of them have all of these at the same TIME!!) and they will still sell it for something else thats newer and better...

I have had 1 amp since 94, I change tubes once in awhile, trust me man, I'd rather be playing than endlessly tweaking..

[ew]

edit: for now though, that GL-100 I've had for years is working really well with this amp.

Oh yeah, the GL-100 would work nicely. Keep it on one of the clean channels and just jack the gain all the way up...

ew

[Sleek Month]

5150's are a little particular about the V1 position having a quiet tube.. SO I certainly experimented with different brands and such.. I havent tried lowerin the gain by using a 12at7 or whatnot.. I know many people do try different tubes in the 5150's to try and tame the "buzz or fizz". BUt I honestly dont feel they are too buzzy at all with a nice set of tubes.. hah

Yeah, I've always loved mine, too. I think people buy "high-gain" amps and run them with the gain on "10" and then complain about them sounding "fizzy".

I like the 5150 with the gain on about 5-6 on the rhythym channel. The lower gain value tube just makes it ring a little more like a Marshall or Bassman, and you get more variation in the gain over the 1-10 range, as opposed to stock which kind of starts out at "a little dirty" and goes to "way fookin' dirty", you get everything between clean and "way dirty". (It removes the fookin').

CHanging the preamp tube value is one of those things I wish I knew 20 years back. It's just such an excellent and cheap way to "mod" an amp...completely reversible, too.

And if you wanna see just plain sad people trying new amps like its candy and never being happy with what they have. GO over to Harmony-centrals Amp forum.. Some of these people try and try new amp after new amp, literally week to week.. They are never happy, its amazing. They have all the big boutique brands(Bogner, Soldano, Splawn, VHT, Marshalls etc.etc. some of them have all of these at the same TIME!!) and they will still sell it for something else thats newer and better...

Yeah, I don't get that. I have different amps, but for different sounds. I can't imagine pursuing a single tone with such zeal...and those f**kers can never play! You hear their myspace stuff and it's always terrible, but, you know, they have to have $5000 worth of amps and all of those $500 boutique/vintage pedals...it's so f**king lame!

...mind that inability to play is probably why they pursue "tone" like that. As any experienced player knows, 90% of your sound comes from your fingers.

I have had 1 amp since 94, I change tubes once in awhile, trust me man, I'd rather be playing than endlessly tweaking..

Look. you're really letting down your side of this as an argument. Stop being so f**king cordial, or we'll have nothing to talk about!

BTW: If I have my way, next month's contest will be metel themed, so we can bust out some of these things, eh?

BTW V2.0: George Lynch is an asshole. The only people I have seen swap stuff out like that were guys who were personally insecure and on a lot of cocaine.(Robbin and Warren from Ratt spring to mind...those guys had an amp tech out on the road for weeks on end doing different mods every day...and copious amounts of krell!)

[ew]

On the subject of tubes and tube life, Jeff Beck said at one time that the tubes in the Plexi he used in the original Jeff Beck Group and still uses on occasion have never been replaced; in fact, they're rusted into the sockets. There's also a lot of original HiWatts with the original tubes (Gold Lions) still in there.

ew

[Sickle]

http://www.centennialbulb.org/kcra.htm

Old shit rules for a good reason.