Roli Seaboard RISE

[vurt]

I'm really curious to hear how pitch bend is different from pitch glide.

well i can bend without breaking bones.
trying to glide from my roof not so much.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I'm really curious to hear how pitch bend is different from pitch glide.

It's different in terms of performance. I really miss having a spring-loaded pitch-wheel now that I only use the Seaboard.

[Pashkuli]

Any keyboard is a grid of sorts, really.

In fact, the music notes themselves are in sort of array or grid, depending on how you make the layout (grid cells). Then all becomes different. A grid is a very different thing than a type of cell layout.
With that in mind Roli, Haken Continuum, Dodeka are linear grid instruments.
Linnstrument is a cell layout instrument as well as Axis-64, Terpstra, Bayan, Tonnetz (invented by the great mathematician Leonard Euler), Janko, Dreschke etc.
I think Linnstrument could be arranged as a grid, linear layout... but that would limit its purpose.

ROLI devices definitely do allow pitch bend per note.

Highly disagree. Again sliding does not mean bend. You can apply certain kind of bending called vibrato. The same way it is applied with Linnstrument and Touchkeys.

Seems like there is a big misconception to what Pitch Bend really is...
Even Pitch Bend wheel is a misleading in that respect... you roll a wheel, you do not Pitch Bend but the result is very similar, though indirect!

[Pashkuli]

I'm really curious to hear how pitch bend is different from pitch glide.

I hope you have played a little bit an electric guitar.
You can do slides, glides and wow-effects... that is a slide. You move your finger across... I repeat... across the notes (frets or the entire string if fretless, like on a violin).

But then... you can grab the note by pressing on the string and... literally bend the string with your finger/s - deform the string stretching it (if using a whammy bar).

Totally different in its essence.

Do they sound the same (slide on one hand and pitch bend/whammy stretch on the other)!? Well... depends on who you ask. Most guitarist would kill you if you even think they are the same thing.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I'm really curious to hear how pitch bend is different from pitch glide.

I hope you have played a little bit an electric guitar.
You can do slides, glides and wow-effects... that is a slide. You move your finger across... I repeat... across the notes (frets or the entire string if fretless, like on a violin).

But then... you can grab the note by pressing on the string and... literally bend the string with your finger/s - deform the string stretching it (if using a whammy bar).

Totally different in its essence.

Do they sound the same (slide on one hand and pitch bend/whammy stretch on the other)!? Well... depends on who you ask. Most guitarist would kill you if you even think they are the same thing.

Yes guitar was my first instrument, which I started playing thirty years ago.

You are really messing up some terminology here and you seem to be confusing a lot of things. Earlier you said that Roli does not pitch bend. It does exactly that. There is a pitch played by a synth oscillator or sample and when you glide (*not "slide") your finger across note area it bends the note up or down. The existing note continues to plays, but a pitch bend signal is sent (again, which is a midi message). The effect is to raise the frequency of the tone. On a stringed instrument like a guitar, the frequency can be raised by either tightening the tension (whammy bar or bend) or shortening the string (playing a higher fret). In both cases the frequency is raised. And yes of course on a physical instrument this has a different sonic effect because of the physics of going from one frequency to another. This has nothing to do with midi pitch bend, which is electronic. Again, like we keep telling you, pitch bend is a midi message. It is the same message from a pitch bend wheel as it is from a Roli note pressed and slid up or down. The Roli just has a separate pitch bend for every note/channel played, rather than a single pitch bend message applied to all notes.

Your claim that Roli does not pitch bend per note or that it is different than pitch slide is nonsense. You don't seem to understand how these terms are used in the midi world. There is no difference between pitch bend and glide and there is no analogy to different methods of changing pitches on a stringed instrument.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I'm really curious to hear how pitch bend is different from pitch glide.

It's different in terms of performance. I really miss having a spring-loaded pitch-wheel now that I only use the Seaboard.

Yes of course. A pitch bend wheel feels different from a joystick, which feels different from an ARP Odyssey style pitch button, which feels different from a CS-80 ribbon, which feels different from a Seaboard, which feels different from a linnstrument. They send pitch bend data.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I'm really curious to hear how pitch bend is different from pitch glide.

It's different in terms of performance. I really miss having a spring-loaded pitch-wheel now that I only use the Seaboard.

Yes of course. A pitch bend wheel feels different from a joystick, which feels different from an ARP Odyssey style pitch button, which feels different from a CS-80 ribbon, which feels different from a Seaboard, which feels different from a linnstrument. They send pitch bend data.

For me, it has nothing to do with the feel, and everything to do with the functionality. And I'm not just talking about the ability to send pitch-bend data

[EvilDragon]

Highly disagree.

You can disagree all you want, that doesn't make you right. If you're going to go with guitar analogy, both bending and sliding is a modification of pitch, in essence they both BEND PITCH. Which is exactly the MIDI message that all these different PITCH BENDING devices are sending. ROLI has pitch bend per note.

[Pashkuli]

I see some of you mix digital with analogue, so to speak.
Let me explain... what we've got here.

1. MIDI messages are just data, they can be triggered by whatever controller or automation parameter.
- you can assign your after-touch strip to trigger Pitch Bend messages, you can assign your pedal to trigger Pitch Bend Messages, or your tilt of the phone... does not matter.

2. Pitch Bend is when you bend the pitch, thus with keyboard players, using their fingertips/fingerpads a Pitch bend would occur if they could bend the note under their fingers, usually triggered by a key, button, fingertip sized area on a surface/touch-sense.

I never spoke about Pitch Bend... Message. That would be a digital data domain.

Now, a Pitch Slide may sound (get triggered) as a 'Pitch Bend Message' would do, but is not a performed as a Pitch Bend!
Pitch Wheel is not performing a Pitch Bend - it is performing a Pitch Wheel Rotation or Slider/Fader (depends on the assigned controller).

To make the analogy on a guitar... well guitarist typically can perform upward Pitch Bend and Upward Vibrato from a given Note (tone) with their fingers (to perform a Downward Ptich bend, there is a special technique involved, called Prebend... requires a good feel and practice!). The involvement of a Whammy bar could be compared to involvement of a Pitch Bend Wheel on a keyboard (it is a different controller, so to speak). Yes, I am aware that some Whammy bars can only do Downward pitch...

So, Pitch Slide is not the same as Pitch Bend. Pitch Slide may trigger Pitch Bend Message (data) but requires the finger to... slide. Where is it said so?
In its name... pitch slide.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I'm really curious to hear how pitch bend is different from pitch glide.

It's different in terms of performance. I really miss having a spring-loaded pitch-wheel now that I only use the Seaboard.

Yes of course. A pitch bend wheel feels different from a joystick, which feels different from an ARP Odyssey style pitch button, which feels different from a CS-80 ribbon, which feels different from a Seaboard, which feels different from a linnstrument. They send pitch bend data.

For me, it has nothing to do with the feel, and everything to do with the functionality. And I'm not just talking about the ability to send pitch-bend data

What data are trying to send with these controllers using the pitch bend mechanism?

[EvilDragon]

So, Pitch Slide is not the same as Pitch Bend.

Yes it is. Ever played a MIDI guitar? Both bend and slide will send pitch bend data.

[Pashkuli]

To give you another example.
If you'd like to simulate a guitar like Pitch Bend (we only limit us to Upwards bend) you can assign your Poly-aftertouch to do this job. That would be a proper Pitch Bend (upwards) technique performed on a keyboard.
Hydrasynth can do poly-aftertouch, as well as Roli Seaboard.
But, again, it will be limited to only Pitch Bend Message - up.

[Pashkuli]

Yes it is. Ever played a MIDI guitar? Both bend and slide will send pitch bend data.

Which would be incorrect duplication of functionality.
I use Jam Origin MIDI guitar (Jamstik's MIDI guitar instrument/controller works in a same way). Pitch Bend work most of the time and sends Pitch Bend Message correctly (not on polyphonic data though). When I slide on the string, it correctly sends short legato notes from the note to the last note of the slide. That is the correct result.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I see some of you mix digital with analogue, so to speak.
Let me explain... what we've got here.

1. MIDI messages are just data, they can be triggered by whatever controller or automation parameter.
- you can assign your after-touch strip to trigger Pitch Bend messages, you can assign your pedal to trigger Pitch Bend Messages, or your tilt of the phone... does not matter.

2. Pitch Bend is when you bend the pitch, thus with keyboard players, using their fingertips/fingerpads a Pitch bend would occur if they could bend the note under their fingers, usually triggered by a key, button, fingertip sized area on a surface/touch-sense.

I never spoke about Pitch Bend... Message. That would be a digital data domain.

Now, a Pitch Slide may sound (get triggered) as a 'Pitch Bend Message' would do, but is not a performed as a Pitch Bend!
Pitch Wheel is not performing a Pitch Bend - it is performing a Pitch Wheel Rotation or Slider/Fader (depends on the assigned controller).

To make the analogy on a guitar... well guitarist typically can perform upward Pitch Bend and Upward Vibrato from a given Note (tone) with their fingers (to perform a Downward Ptich bend, there is a special technique involved, called Prebend... requires a good feel and practice!). The involvement of a Whammy bar could be compared to involvement of a Pitch Bend Wheel on a keyboard (it is a different controller, so to speak). Yes, I am aware that some Whammy bars can only do Downward pitch...

So, Pitch Slide is not the same as Pitch Bend. Pitch Slide may trigger Pitch Bend Message (data) but requires the finger to... slide. Where is it said so?
In its name... pitch slide.

No offense man, but I've rarely seen such garbled mess of confused gibberish in all my years in this forum. There is this mix of obviousness and totally bizarre use of terminology that it is difficult to even parse where you have gone astray.
I'll try a few specifics:

I see some of you mix digital with analogue, so to speak.
Let me explain... what we've got here.

Nobody is mixing up analog and digital. Pitch bend as it relates to keyboards is a midi message. You send it over a midi cable or a usb. It is digital. You seem to be the only mixing up analog/physical pitch changes like on a guitar.

1. MIDI messages are just data, they can be triggered by whatever controller or automation parameter.
- you can assign your after-touch strip to trigger Pitch Bend messages, you can assign your pedal to trigger Pitch Bend Messages, or your tilt of the phone... does not matter.

Correct! And this what the Seaboard Rise does in order to send pitch bend (a MIDI message!) per channel.

2. Pitch Bend is when you bend the pitch, thus with keyboard players, using their fingertips/fingerpads a Pitch bend would occur if they could bend the note under their fingers, usually triggered by a key, button, fingertip sized area on a surface/touch-sense.

What does this even mean? The key isn't the thing making the physical sound, it is triggering a sound from a generator. The pitch is bent from a message, which for analog synths is via control voltage and with digital instruments would be the pitch bend midi message (or some direct built in message like in iOS or other custom software). What are you talking about bending a note under their finger? Bending a physical key will not bend a note, even on a piano. The string in the piano would have to be tightened/shortened.

I never spoke about Pitch Bend... Message. That would be a digital data domain.

What do you think everyone else is talking about when they say Pitch bend??!!? We are talking about a ROli Seaboard Rise. A midi controller!! And synthesizers and software etc. What magical type of pitch bend do you think people are referring to when they use the term pitch bend, which is a midi message. Good lord. Are you saying that when you claimed that a roli Seabord rise doesn't do pitch bend per note, that you are saying that the controller doesn't somehow physically bend on a non-physical synthesizer material? How would you physically alter a material that doesn't exist? Obviously everyone is talking about pitch bend midi data. What else could it be?

Now, a Pitch Slide may sound (get triggered) as a 'Pitch Bend Message' would do, but is not a performed as a Pitch Bend!
Pitch Wheel is not performing a Pitch Bend - it is performing a Pitch Wheel Rotation or Slider/Fader (depends on the assigned controller).

This is absolutely meaningless. See above.

To make the analogy on a guitar...

No more analogies please. Stop mixing up physical objects with midi messages.

[Echoes in the Attic]

To give you another example.
If you'd like to simulate a guitar like Pitch Bend (we only limit us to Upwards bend) you can assign your Poly-aftertouch to do this job. That would be a proper Pitch Bend (upwards) technique performed on a keyboard.
Hydrasynth can do poly-aftertouch, as well as Roli Seaboard.

Whaaat? So modulating the pitch with the aftertouch midi message is a proper pitch bend but modulating the pitch with the pitch bend midi signal is not proper pitch bend?
You are either completely insane or completely ignorant about midi. Or both. But it's gotten quite humorous at this point so please continue.

*Your post above was my absolute favorite so far, it actually gave me a good laugh. So a genuine thank you for that.

EvilDragon or someone else please take over from here. I'm exhausted! But I do have a smile on my face.