Roli Seaboard RISE

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
Ploki
KVRian
1497 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:31 am

shouldn't be, at least according to MIDI stream from a seaboard

himalaya
KVRAF
5172 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:33 am

Such a confusing topic you guys have embarked upon !
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:36 am

It doesn't matter anyway.

himalaya
KVRAF
5172 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:44 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:09 pm
EvilDragon wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:57 pm
No, it isn't wrong. It depends what you've learned to expect. There are fretless instruments where doing short legato notes would NOT be the right way to go, because their slide is CONTINUOUS, it is not interrupted with in-between notes.
That is correct. Those instruments like violin, chello, bass, whistle have the glissando - a slide technique... you move the finger from one position to the next. Can you assign it as a Pitch Bend Message - of course you can (I think Roli uses Slide exactly this way). It is usually associated with portamento message.
Is it the same as Pitch Bend technique - of course it is not.
SLIDE in ROLI-speak refers to the vertical slide along the keywave and uses CC74. Let's get the naming right here. You do not perform any pitch-related modulation with the SLIDE dimension, at least not in the default configuration. However, each dimension (STRIKE, GLIDE, SLIDE, PRESS, LIFT) can be programmed to do any type of modulation one desires (this requires the associated synth to be able to pull it off, and all three Roli synths can: Strobe, Cypher, Equator).

Now, when we do pitch-bend modulation on a Seaboard, we talk about the GLIDE dimension and 'gliding' not 'sliding'. In the ROLI-speak at least.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

himalaya
KVRAF
5172 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:03 am

I don't have much time to read the past few pages, but a few things jumped out at me and I feel compelled to write a recap:

STRIKE - this is velocity

GLIDE - this is pitch-bend. Polyphonic pitch-bend, where the glide gestures can create all manner of pitch-related articulations. Yes, you do bend the pitch with GLIDE. This shouldn't be such a mind-bending thing to understand...

SLIDE - this is used to add anything that one desires. No limits as to what it should or should not control.

PRESS - polyphonic, continuous pressure. This can also control anything one desires. However, due to the nature of this dimension, and the fact that by default it can interact with velocity, it is best to focus on amplitude modulation and carefully chosen timbre modulation, without any 'fireworks' getting in the way. The SLIDE dimension is better for 'fireworks'.

LIFT - this is velocity note-off. Anything goes. But a few rules need to be observed. One of these is, to use LIFT successfully, we need to modulate the amp envelope release stage and open it up. Ask me why later. :)

Otherwise, yes, we can easily perform several pitch-related articulation techniques on a Seaboard (be it the GRAND, RISE or BLOCK). Poly pitch-bend, glissando, portamento....it's there.

But, we can have more exciting stuff happening on GLIDE, than just pure pitch-bend. Try something else. Like a Ring-Mod sound. I have fond memories of making this one in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWsTac1exhk
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7672 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:17 am

himalaya wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:44 am
Now, when we do pitch-bend modulation on a Seaboard, we talk about the GLIDE dimension and 'gliding' not 'sliding'. In the ROLI-speak at least.
Correct. Once or twice I referred to the pitch bend gesture as slide because it had been referred to that wayin posts I was responding to. Meant to say "glide" (and did correctly say glide several times). I always have to remember which one is which in Roli speak. Point is it's pitch bend. The whole thing started from the claim that Roli doesn't do pitch bend per note. Which is absurd of course. They just refer to the gesture as glide. And of course it doesn't matter if we are talking about the X direction movement (glide) or if for some reason you modulated the pitch bend with the Y axis (slide). Both would be sending pitch bend per note, just a different movement. That certainly confused an already confusing conversation to say slide when it should have said glide. But again the point is that Roli send pitch bend per note by moving in the X axis. And it is per note.
Last edited by Echoes in the Attic on Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

himalaya
KVRAF
5172 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:28 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:17 am
The whole thing started from the claim that Roli doesn't do pitch bend per note. Which is absurd of course.
Really? Amazing. Yes, you're right, it is absurd.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7672 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:33 am

himalaya wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:28 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:17 am
The whole thing started from the claim that Roli doesn't do pitch bend per note. Which is absurd of course.
Really? Amazing. Yes, you're right, it is absurd.
Yes, and even more amazingly that it would be pitch bend if you set aftertouch to control pitch bend. Then it is real pitch bend. But other ways of sending pitch, like the default glide, isn't real pitch bend. The whole thing was madness. I must have been in a weird mood to actually engage but it was sort of fun drilling down into it.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:44 am

himalaya wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:03 am
GLIDE - Yes, you do bend the pitch with GLIDE. This shouldn't be such a mind-bending thing to understand...
Ok, I guess. Still, referring to Glide as a Pitch Bend is incorrect.
The note/pitch is under your finger (be it a key, button or fingertip size are on a surface).
Bending it (the note/pitch) should have nothing to do with gliding, sliding to another area/key/button (that would be something similar to Portamento).
Performing a Pitch Bend is different than performing a Glide, Slide or Pitch Wheel rotation.
It is fundamentally different. If you do not understand that, maybe a video with my explanation on my Pashkuli Keyboard would bring some more light on the concept.
Last edited by Pashkuli on Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7672 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:57 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:44 am
himalaya wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:03 am
GLIDE - Yes, you do bend the pitch with GLIDE. This shouldn't be such a mind-bending thing to understand...
Ok, I guess. Still, referring to Glide as a Pitch Bend is incorrect.
The note/pitch is under your finger (be it a key, button or fingertip size are on a surface).
Bending it (the note/pitch) should have nothing to do with gliding, sliding to another area/key/button (that would be something similar to Portamento).
Performing a Pitch Bend is different than performing a Glide, Slide or Pitch Wheel rotation.
It is fundamentally different. If you do not understand that, maybe a video with my explanation on my Pashkuli Keyboard would bring some more explanation.
Himalaya, do you dare enter into the house of madness? Will you take the red pill or the blue pill? :lol:
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

cleverr1
KVRist
375 posts since 29 Nov, 2005

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:58 am

Pashkuli,
Mate it's only nomenclature, there are no absolute concepts here.

The reason I posted here was to correct your laughable assertion that the rise doesn't do individual pitch bend per note. The rest of this thread looks like your vain attempt to shroud your basic error in a smokescreen of terminology.

I must admit, it's funny as f**k though :D

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:53 am

cleverr1 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:58 am
The reason I posted here was to correct your laughable assertion that the rise doesn't do individual pitch bend per note.
You can assign Pitch Wheel (or Slider in the case of Roli), you can assign Glide or Slide gestures or stepping on a pedal to trigger Pitch Bend Messages... but you can not perform a Pitch Bend and send it to trigger what it should: a Pitch Bend Message.
It is not only nomenclature. It is a missing feature.

cleverr1
KVRist
375 posts since 29 Nov, 2005

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:06 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:53 am
cleverr1 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:58 am
The reason I posted here was to correct your laughable assertion that the rise doesn't do individual pitch bend per note.
You can assign Pitch Wheel (or Slider in the case of Roli), you can assign Glide or Slide gestures or stepping on a pedal to trigger Pitch Bend Messages... but you can not perform a Pitch Bend and send it to trigger what it should: a Pitch Bend Message.
It is not only nomenclature. It is a missing feature.
Mate,
Plug a rise or a block into midi-ox and push any key side to side and you'll see a load of pitch bend messages. Do this with a second key and you see a load of pitch bend messages or two separate channels. That's the way it works.

Top tip - If you want to use a pitch wheel to bend all of the notes by the same amount save money on expensive Roli hardware and buy a normal keyboard. :wink:

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:24 am

cleverr1 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:06 am
Mate,
Plug a rise or a block into midi-ox and push any key side to side and you'll see a load of pitch bend messages. Do this with a second key and you see a load of pitch bend messages or two separate channels. :wink:
I think you are talking about Vibrato that sends Pitch Bend Messages but never results in a Pitch Bend for let's say 4 "semitones".
Vibrato is very well implemented in Seaboard.
Pitch Bend... well, my friend, that is another story.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7672 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:39 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:24 am
cleverr1 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:06 am
Mate,
Plug a rise or a block into midi-ox and push any key side to side and you'll see a load of pitch bend messages. Do this with a second key and you see a load of pitch bend messages or two separate channels. :wink:
I think you are talking about Vibrato that sends Pitch Bend Messages but never results in a Pitch Bend for let's say 4 "semitones".
Vibrato is very well implemented in Seaboard.
Pitch Bend... well, my friend, that is another story.
No. You can of course vibrato by bending slightly back and forth. If you want a 4 semitone pitch bend you simply glide over 4 semi-tones. There you go. A 4 semi-tone pitch bend. You are simply wrong. Go to a store and try it. Or just watch any of hundreds of videos on youtube about it.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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